Yearly OS poll time again!

[fese]

I use Gnome desktop, because I like it.

First time I ever seen anyone admitting to liking Gnome…

[audiojunkie]

I still have to support Windows at work myself--I work at a local hospital in the Information Services department. It is what it is. All of the OSes have their pros and cons. Linux just happens to match my ideology. I don't like being told what I can or can't do with a system I pay for.

[audiojunkie]

I use Gnome desktop, because I like it.

First time I ever seen anyone admitting to liking Gnome…

Yes, I do like Gnome for the superior touchscreen capabilities. I may use something different in the future. The nice thing is that I have the option, if desired, to use something else. Each year that passes brings more options and possibilities. I like KDE, as well as a few other desktop environments. KDE isn't too far behind with the touch screen features, so I may switch in the future.

I run everything I use with HiDPI. It's really interesting that this is an area that one would have expected Windows to dominate. However there seems to be a lot of apps even on Windows that don't yet support HiDPI scaling. The fact that I run everything at HiDPI scaling further shows how fast Linux has come along in its development.

Linux is not for everybody, of course. There is a learning curve (although that seems to get less steep each year that passes). Linux doesn't have as many NATIVE linux apps, but honestly, how many apps does one need? Installing hundreds of apps onto my system isn't my idea of fun. I try to have a good set of tools that covers what I want to do. If I need anything from the Windows realm, I can always use WINE and yabridge--but right now, I don't even need that. I'm perfectly satisfied with what I currently use:

Reaper
Vital
Hive2
Diva
Repro
Tal Sampler
Tal Drum
Speedrum
Bliss Sampler
Cardinal
Odin2
Surge-XT
Sfizz
Drumgizmo
Linux Sampler
Linux Studio Plugins Suite
AirWindows Suite
MDA-LV2 Suite
DragonFly Reverb Suite
Guitarix.VST

There's plenty more, but why install hundreds of plugins? I could further strip the list I have down by half and still do fine. I just like to have a backup tool for every tool I use. That's why I have some redundancies. In previous decades here, I used to collect and maintain a list of plugins that I thought were great. I had hundreds of them. I never got anything done. I'd just spend my time playing with patches. Now, I prefer simple, specific, high quality tools that do what I want them to do.

[Kalee]

I like modern gnome as well! Engineering laptop has Ubuntu LTS.

[BONES]

I enjoy Linux. I'm interested in seeing how many people like me are here on KVR. What you use and prefer is your own business.

You f**king asked, pal, don't blame me if you don't like the answer.

I like the open source nature of Linux.

I like the fact that my laptop already has Windows on it when I buy it, so it's one less thing I have to f**k around with before I can start using it to do what I bought it to do. My experience with open source has been a mixed bag, to say the least. People lose interest in a project and just stop working on it. Someone else takes it over and changes it completely. I've been waiting for more than 20 years for Windowmaker Version 1.0 but it's still at 0.9x. It was at 0.6x in 2000.

I like how customizable it is--it works for me the way I want to work, not the other way around.

I care about the way my applications work, all I want from my OS is to support that.

I like the incredibly low resource usage.

What incredibly low resource usage? Unless you compile your own kernel, Linux isn't going to be any more efficient than Windows or macOS. By the time you run WINE between your applications and the OS, you'll be chewing through significantly more resources than if you chose the best OS for your needs in the first place.

The total cost of ownership can't be beat,

Of course it can. I have spent significantly more on Linux distributions over the years than I have on Windows. Windows has been effectively free for ages now, since Windows 8, really.

and I love the available community support.

The fact that is significant to you tells me you are using the wrong OS because I don't really know what support is even available for my OS. It just works, I never need support.

I have no problem if you want to use a system with outrageous license agreements, hostile treatment of legitimate users, extortionist prices, vendor lock-in, poor support for older hardware, and a high total cost of ownership.

But I bet you've got Google shit all over your computer, which makes you either a massive hypocrite or a complete dumbass.

How's windows 11 with that TPM 2.0 requirement going for a lot of people here?

Really, really well on both my computers, thanks. It's not even been a consideration.

Oh, and I forgot that there's absolutely no privacy--the system (just like google) monetizes your privacy for their gain.

I'm happy for Microsoft to have access to my data, because they use it to make my life easier. They store my credit card details so I don't have to enter them manually when I buy stuff and they store the dozens of log-ins I have to plugin vendors and the like, which saves me having to remember them all myself. They read my calendar so they can give me reminders and suggest actions to me. I'm also happy for them to collect all my keystrokes so they can learn how I use my computer and make it work better for me. And even though I am happy to give them access to my data, they are still nice enough to pay me for it. It's win-win for me, so if Microsoft also benefit, why would I care?

As for laptops, I'd take a quality 2-in-1 any day of the week over that weird proprietary laptop you've got there.

Because no-one ever saw any advantage in using two monitors with their computer, right?

I really enjoy my Yoga. It's a Gen 5 instead of this Gen 7 but they look the same

A laptop by any other name. And a Communist Chinese one at that. Imagine all the spyware hardwired into that thing that you don't even know about!?!

I use Gnome desktop, because I like it.

I've used GNOME, I've used KDE, I've used Sawfish and several others. I preferred WindowMaker for it's lightweight simplicity but they never got it working reliably enough and never fleshed out the features they had promised.

The beautiful thing is, if I didn't like the way my desktop looked or felt, I'd have 24+ others that I can use instead. Windows users are stuck with whatever they are given.

Not even close. Stardock make a range of options for completely customising Windows. I use Start 11 to fix the issues I have with the Win11 Start Menu that gives me the best of all possible worlds. Honestly Windows 10's Start experience is head and shoulders above anything anyone else has ever thought of. It's absolute genius!

So, in short, you do you, I'll do me. There's room in this world for differences in viewpoint.

If you don't want to know, don't f**king ask. But you did ask so you have no f**king reason to whinge, just because you don't like the answer.

At this point, life is too short to fiddle with getting Win laptop that doesn't give micro stutters because of too high DPC latency or so. Perhaps Linux software will develop to the point that it can be considered!

Well, I must be the luckiest man on Earth because we've been using Windows PCs on stage since 2003 and I can't say I've ever had any "micro stutters" to deal with. Just out of interest, were the PCs you used as expensive as a Mac or did you spend half as much and expect to get the same experience? Because that's not how it works.

Linux really feels like the only future for users that think for themselves.

Oh, the delicious irony!!

Linux just happens to match my ideology.

What's your ideology - "nothing should work out of the box, everything should be a pain in the arse to set up and get working"?

I don't like being told what I can or can't do with a system I pay for.

Really? You pay for the roads but you don't get to do whatever you want with them, do you? You can buy a block of land but you can't build on it without getting all manner of approvals. You can buy a gun but you can't go around shooting anyone you feel like with it. And, honestly, I'm far more put out by any of those restrictions than I am by any of the restrictions any software license puts on me.

[BONES]

I use Gnome desktop, because I like it. This is an example video of it:

Are you kidding me!?! Not even 5 minutes into it and he is checking compatibilty of his extensions with this GNOME version. That's where I lost the will to live and had to stop the video before I did something rash.

If you want to see some beautiful and highly functional desktops, look no further than Rainmeter, a completely free and open source utility for Windows that allows you to customise the shit out of it. I used it a long time ago to make a full desktop launcher because I hated the Vista/Win7 Start Menu so much. It was 100 hours or more of hard work but, at the end, I had the most amazing and unique desktop you have ever seen.

Just check out this gallery for a small sample of what's possible -

https://www.rainmeter.net/#gallery-1

Her are a few more amazing desktops I got off the 'net -


This one has app launchers bottom-right and resources usage meters on the left side.


This one's a bit more colourful.


This is minimal but gorgeous.

And they are ALL Windows desktops.

[BBFG#]

I like how our points are proven without ever knowing it. Unless it is, and then that's just willful ignorance instigated by the usual oppositional defiance.

[Kalee]

Well, I must be the luckiest man on Earth because we've been using Windows PCs on stage since 2003 and I can't say I've ever had any "micro stutters" to deal with. Just out of interest, were the PCs you used as expensive as a Mac or did you spend half as much and expect to get the same experience? Because that's not how it works.

About the same: Dell Latitude, Lenovo Thinkpad vs. MacBook Air. Dell was usable even though there was this periodic spiking, but the newer Lenovo wasn't even though it should have outperformed everything.

I haven't had these issues always and I've too used Windows XP to make music. Nowadays these micro stutters seem more common. Did research machines such as Dell XPS series, but even they are suffering from this as it seems, and those are in the same price range as bigger MacBook Pros.

[aMUSEd]

There is no OS-X - it is now MacOS

[imrae]

The only person I know with one of those dual-screen laptops is running Ubuntu on it quite happily.

My general view hasn't changed much in the last year: I use Linux, MacOS and Windows on a typical day. They all have some issues, they all get the job done, and in many ways they are more similar than they used to be. What has changed a bit is that the audio software side is looking quite good on Linux now: native REAPER and U-he with Fabfilter, NI and TDR running nicely under recent versions of yabridge. That's a great set of tools. The biggest limitation now is the lack of support from manufacturers of high-performance audio interfaces.

[audiojunkie]

Since you went through all the trouble of quoting and posting, I owe you the same courtesy.

You f**king asked, pal, don't blame me if you don't like the answer.

While it is true that I asked everyone to do the survey, that would usually entail clicking a box, or even more than one box. However, as you love to do, you started right in with the contention:

You do understand that what you've said here is pretty much why you'd have to be f**king crazy to bother trying to use Linux, don't you? It's like trying to convince someone who has no interest in driving that they should buy a manual car. You have to really want to use Linux, it's not a rational, objective choice.

If you don't want to know, don't f**king ask. But you did ask so you have no f**king reason to whinge, just because you don't like the answer.

The comments are fine--they're your opinion. However, responding to your comments is not "whinging" They are simply my opinion response to your opinion response, which is equally as valid as yours.

What incredibly low resource usage? Unless you compile your own kernel, Linux isn't going to be any more efficient than Windows or macOS. By the time you run WINE between your applications and the OS, you'll be chewing through significantly more resources than if you chose the best OS for your needs in the first place.

You keep hashing up this ancient information, and I have to keep correcting you. It has literally been a decade since compiling a kernel has been needed for 99% of use cases on Linux. Some people do it, because old habits die hard. However, as I've mentioned to you in the past, almost all of the real time kernel patches have been added to the generic default kernel. Adding a simple boot parameter to the startup does away with needing a specially compiled kernel for all but industry level processes and robotics. And furthermore, the kernel has always had less to do with the efficiency, than with the sheer BLOAT of Windows software and unneeded services that are constantly running and taking up CPU cycles and RAM. For efficiency's sake, I'd be willing that an Arch install, with a default installation, would run circles around the fat bloated cow that is Windows 11. (And I'd be willing to bet the same against Windows 10 as well). Please do yourself a favor next time before arguing and insulting Linux to at least get up to date with what Linux is capable of doing nowadays, and not a decade ago. It makes you look silly. Oh, and by the way, I use native linux apps only. It's simply a nicety that I can run windows apps IF I want to....

"The total cost of ownership can't be beat"

Of course it can. I have spent significantly more on Linux distributions over the years than I have on Windows. Windows has been effectively free for ages now, since Windows 8, really.

Sounds like a personal problem to me. A little bit of reading and research could have saved you a lot of money. Everything you need to use Linux is available on the internet for anybody.

The fact that is significant to you tells me you are using the wrong OS because I don't really know what support is even available for my OS. It just works, I never need support.

The customer support I was referring to is the wonderful documentation that has been written by the community, that only needs to be read to learn how everything works. The Arch Wiki stands as an excellent example of concise information available to understand the internals of Linux. I have never in the 20+ years of using linux ever needed to actually contact someone for technical support, although it IS available if one should want it.

But I bet you've got Google shit all over your computer, which makes you either a massive hypocrite or a complete dumbass.

You know what happens when you ASSume, right?

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index. ... You_Assume

I'm happy for Microsoft to have access to my data, because they use it to make my life easier. They store my credit card details so I don't have to enter them manually when I buy stuff and they store the dozens of log-ins I have to plugin vendors and the like, which saves me having to remember them all myself. They read my calendar so they can give me reminders and suggest actions to me. I'm also happy for them to collect all my keystrokes so they can learn how I use my computer and make it work better for me. And even though I am happy to give them access to my data, they are still nice enough to pay me for it. It's win-win for me, so if Microsoft also benefit, why would I care?

SMH

"As for laptops, I'd take a quality 2-in-1 any day of the week over that weird proprietary laptop you've got there."

Because no-one ever saw any advantage in using two monitors with their computer, right?

No, because I have a different use case for my device. I use my 2-in-1 as a tablet as well. While that laptop might be nice for your usage, it would be unwieldly for me and my purposes.

A laptop by any other name. And a Communist Chinese one at that. Imagine all the spyware hardwired into that thing that you don't even know about!?!

Out of everything you said, this was the only thing to give me pause. It certainly is possible that this could happen. However, I believe it would be unlikely, because the rest of the world would have spoken up about it:

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org ... om-devices

https://www.channele2e.com/business/ent ... countries/

If it ever gets discovered that Lenovo has been determined to spy on me, I'll face that if it happens.

I've used GNOME, I've used KDE, I've used Sawfish and several others. I preferred WindowMaker for it's lightweight simplicity but they never got it working reliably enough and never fleshed out the features they had promised.

The code is still there. There's nothing stopping you from contributing and making WindowMaker what you want it to be. That's the beauty of open source. However, I seem to recall you feeling like Windows 8 had the best desktop environment. While there is no accounting for taste, there's a better chance of finding a useful alternative desktop on Linux than there is on Windows. As of right now, there are 3 active "Shell" projects for Windows, and only 2 of them are compatible with Windows 11.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... or_Windows

Now, if you were comparing just Start Menu replacements, there used to be quite a few for Windows 8, but that is just a single component of a full fledged desktop environment. Care to venture a guess at how many of these are still active?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... _Windows_8

Not even close. Stardock make a range of options for completely customising Windows. I use Start 11 to fix the issues I have with the Win11 Start Menu that gives me the best of all possible worlds. Honestly Windows 10's Start experience is head and shoulders above anything anyone else has ever thought of. It's absolute genius!

Let me correct you on this. Stardock does not change the existing Windows Environment that Windows 11 uses. Windows still uses the Windows desktop environment. Stardock is simply a tool for advanced theming, to as you say, "completely customize" the "look" of the Windows desktop environment--but it's still the desktop environment. You could say the same thing about Gnome 3 and Cinnamon. Cinnamon derives from Gnome 3, but follows traditional desktop metaphor conventions. Desktop environments like KDE are completely different code bases with completely different pros and cons when comparing against a desktop environment like Gnome 3. So, unfortunately, you are the one that is "not even close."

"So, in short, you do you, I'll do me. There's room in this world for differences in viewpoint. "

If you don't want to know, don't f**king ask. But you did ask so you have no f**king reason to whinge, just because you don't like the answer.

Again, for research purposes, I asked for some checkboxes to be filled to indicate what OS everyone is using. I want to learn the percentages of the population of KVR that use each OS. The more people that check those little boxes, the better representation I get. Granted, it's not scientific, but it is interesting to me, and I greatly appreciate everyone (including you) who has responded to the survey. You were the person who turned this into a Windows vs Linux pissing match. I could let what you say sit and confuse others that are interested in Linux, or I can point out your errors so that people know what a modern Linux system can do. I prefer to not let others be misinformed.

I would hope that this would be the end of all of this, but I've been on the board as long as you have. I know you'll be back to argue more. See ya soon!

Edit: I almost forgot to mention your beloved Asus Zenbook Duo Pro 14:

https://davejansen.com/asus-zenbook-duo ... ora-linux/

https://twitter.com/nixcraft/status/145 ... 00?lang=en

https://davejansen.com/asus-zenbook-duo ... ora-linux/

https://twitter.com/nixcraft/status/145 ... 00?lang=en

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.....

[audiojunkie]

I use Gnome desktop, because I like it. This is an example video of it:

Are you kidding me!?! Not even 5 minutes into it and he is checking compatibilty of his extensions with this GNOME version. That's where I lost the will to live and had to stop the video before I did something rash.

If you want to see some beautiful and highly functional desktops, look no further than Rainmeter, a completely free and open source utility for Windows that allows you to customise the shit out of it. I used it a long time ago to make a full desktop launcher because I hated the Vista/Win7 Start Menu so much. It was 100 hours or more of hard work but, at the end, I had the most amazing and unique desktop you have ever seen.

Just check out this gallery for a small sample of what's possible -

https://www.rainmeter.net/#gallery-1

Her are a few more amazing desktops I got off the 'net -


This one has app launchers bottom-right and resources usage meters on the left side.


This one's a bit more colourful.


This is minimal but gorgeous.

And they are ALL Windows desktops.

Themes dude. These are all themes. I said desktop environments, not theming the behavior in the same windows desktop environment. Pfffft....

What's on your desktop?
Rainmeter allows you to display customizable skins on your desktop, from hardware usage meters to fully functional audio visualizers.
You are only limited by your imagination and creativity.

Rainmeter is open source software distributed free of charge under the terms of the GNU GPL v2 license.

Oh the irony of using Open Source for your example!

I'd say, "Never mind!" but you are unable to leave a message without a retort. So how about this? I'll let you respond and get your final say, and I'll let sleeping dogs lie. I'll be waiting...

[audiojunkie]

I like how our points are proven without ever knowing it. Unless it is, and then that's just willful ignorance instigated by the usual oppositional defiance.

Hehehe! Well, you know how they say controversy sells...... Maybe I'll get more people to do the survery.

[audiojunkie]

There is no OS-X - it is now MacOS

Thank you for the clarification! Apparently the name changed back in 2016. Old habits die hard.

Apple shortened the name to "OS X" in 2011 and then changed it to "macOS" in 2016 to align with the branding of Apple's other operating systems, iOS, watchOS, and tvOS.

[audiojunkie]

The only person I know with one of those dual-screen laptops is running Ubuntu on it quite happily.

My general view hasn't changed much in the last year: I use Linux, MacOS and Windows on a typical day. They all have some issues, they all get the job done, and in many ways they are more similar than they used to be. What has changed a bit is that the audio software side is looking quite good on Linux now: native REAPER and U-he with Fabfilter, NI and TDR running nicely under recent versions of yabridge. That's a great set of tools. The biggest limitation now is the lack of support from manufacturers of high-performance audio interfaces.

Many of the high performance audio interfaces that are supported by Apple work just fine with Linux. The key thing to look for is class compliance.