How many of you are getting the Osmose?

[BONES]

That's really interesting, It uses velocity layers to create all kinds of expressive effects. That's very, very clever but something you could set up to work with any controller, really. Using pressure to control the glide time, though, is a unique and very nice feature, although you can achieve a similar result with a Pitch-Bend Wheel in most situations.

I'm also impressed with the apparent build quality because the prototypes we saw a few years ago looked decidedly hand-made.

(PS- We have had the one button argument before- My studio has one button that turns on everything (mixer, synths, monitor speakers etc) via the UPS...so yes, I hit one button and I am playing. You could obviously do something similar with your laptop (just wake from sleep) by my deal is I don't turn my computer until I need it...

I've never used Sleep. 15 years ago it didn't work very well so I never got into the habit. Today computers shut down and start up so quickly it no longer seems necessary. I just went up the road for lunch - I was only gone for 40 minutes but I still shut everything down before I left.

There's no way I could just yank the power, I'd be too worried about losing stuff. And switching it all on from a master switch, I'd be worried about damaging my speakers. They are always last on and first off. Everything else comes on with the laptop, though, because it all draws power from it. I say "everything else" but that's just my I/O device and the Uno Pro.

I am just so easily distracted as soon as I am on the computer I start reading KVR and finding new synths to download!)

I actually enjoy distraction. Right now, for instance, I have the cricket on TV in front of me, I am listening to a piece I started work on yesterday and typing this reply to you. By the time I get back to Studio One I will probably have listened to the piece another 20 times, which will inform what I do with it. Just letting it wash over you in the background engages your subconscious so that when you go back to it, you suddenly know what to do without having had to concentrate on it.

I cant stop playing it and it puts a big smile on my face...that's all I want from my hobby.

That begs a really interesting question, which is what do people want from this particular hobby? If all you want to do is put a smile on your face, there are a lot less expensive ways to get that done. If I were to quantify what I want from it, it would go way, way deeper than that. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Anybody know what this app is on the eaganmatrix page?
Looks like an ipad app or something. I wonder if that's available as an editor for the osmose version.

Screenshot 2023-01-12 161916.jpg

[SLiC]

Anybody know what this app is on the eaganmatrix page?
Looks like an ipad app or something. I wonder if that's available as an editor for the osmose version.

Screenshot 2023-01-12 161916.jpg

Is t that just the MAX patch programmer?

[SteveElbows]

Its probably the 'IOS Haken Continuum Remote' part of the SpringSound iOS app. Which probably doesnt offer too much more than can already be done via the Osmoses screen.

[zerocrossing]

I was on the fence, and had the opportunity to test it at SooperBooth. It would collect dust as I would still only play my LinnStrument.

That's the way I feel about it, though I ended up finding the Rise 49 to be my cup of tea.

From watching all the new demos, here's my take on it. It seems like it would be a bit fiddly to be a main controller. Meaning, it's not going to take the place of a good standard keyboard with aftertouch. Especially for me, as I have one that's 61 keys, which is especially important to me, because I've been using a lot of sample libraries lately where the articulations are way down in the range. They claim it's "MPE+," but from my vantage point, it's MPE Lite. I've grown used to having full control of each note's pitch, and the portamento trick they use is cute for its design, but it's a Bandaid that points to the fact that a traditional key falls short for full per-note independent portamento.

The Eagan Matrix is the most tempting part of it…
Maybe I need to get a Continuum mini instead… I would love to hack an Eagan Matrix into my LinnStrument… (The space is there…)

Not for me. It sounds good, but holy crap, it looks like someone forgot to hire a UI/UX person and just let the engineers do it all. I mean, I don't think it sounds better than Plasmonic, and despite it having its own UI issues, it seems more user friendly. There are already reports that updating the firmware on the Osmose breaks connectivity to the app. Not great. I get why they wanted a built in synth engine, but I think they should have taken a direction like Roland did with the System 8, and maybe had a more user friendly engine. I guess they're figuring that few people want to program their own patches.

[zerocrossing]

Sounds like you have invested time in it and are getting the most out of it ( the right way to be). The Osmose is for instant gratification people like me, you can just play it with an almost zero learning curve (with the built in engine anyway). Setting it up to run as a controller for VSTs is back to investing a bit of time…ARAE fills a few gaps and the customisable visual feedback makes it an all round studio tool (such as 4 XY pads for Zebra). All in all I am very happy!

I think this is exactly what Expressive E was aiming at. Long time keyboard players are pretty set in their ways. I think I'm probably more flexible because I started out as a guitar player and only got into playing keys because guitar-to-MIDI blows so hard. So to me, a keyboard always felt like a huge compromise for synths. Fine for general piano, organ and electric keys type sounds, but for a polyphonic synthesizer? Crap. You've got all these parameters and most synthesizers barely have velocity, pitch and mod wheel. Craptacular.

But that's what a lot of people grew up with and they got good at it and it feels good. Those cats don't want to put in the time, and I admit it's considerable, to get good at something like a Linnstrument or Seaboard. Someone on another forum was complaining about how they weren't feeling proficient yet with their Rise after three days. Who's picked up a brand new instrument and felt good about their playing after three days? So, it's an investment in time, where something like the Osmose is a much smaller investment. The price for that is it is not nearly as flexible as other MPE controllers. It relies on a lot of slight-of-hand to make things happen.

I see it as an overall good thing for the world. It's a great kiddie pool for people do get their MPE feet wet in. I suspect many will be super frustrated with Eagan Matrix and buy Equator 2, which is fast and fun to work with. If you know synths like Serum or Pigments, you basically know it. It doesn't do any physical modeling, but instead has a large library of good multisamples and wavetables. For many, the Osmose will probably be enough, but I bet there will also be a group of people that start bumping into its limitations and decide to put in the time and effort to learn a more complete MPE controller.

[SteveElbows]

Its not a kiddie pool. I'll remember that ignorant remark every time I see a glorious Osmose performance from now to eternity.

[SLiC]

I have most good MPE synths, equator 2, plasmonic, cypher, falcon all 3 Dawsome etc. in my opinion the EM synths blows them all out of the water. I have also had a linnstrument, roli, sensel and still have AERE and I find the Osmose to be the most expressive irrespective of how the MPE is triggered, it’s the velocity range, the softest notes, the integration, the speed things are picked up…I have tried everything and for me this is the best hands down (and I am primarily a guitarist, not a keyboard player)

[zerocrossing]

Its not a kiddie pool. I'll remember that ignorant remark every time I see a glorious Osmose performance from now to eternity.

It never seems a kiddie pool to a kid.

[SteveElbows]

Well I suppose if you count my birth as having happened when I first got an MPE controller then I am only 6 and a half.

Or a teenager if the Eigenharp Pico counts.

[zerocrossing]

Well I suppose if you count my birth as having happened when I first got an MPE controller then I am only 6 and a half.

Or a teenager if the Eigenharp Pico counts.

I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying that the Osmose is a toy. Far from it. In terms of keyboards, it's probably the most expressive keyboard ever designed. But the key to that phrase is "in terms of keyboards." It will never give you the full MPE deal that something like the Continuum, Linnstrument or Seaboard does. It's physically impossible. So, as an expressive keyboard, it's the Mariana Trench, but as a full MPE controller, it's the shallow end of the pool.

[BONES]

Fine for general piano, organ and electric keys type sounds, but for a polyphonic synthesizer? Crap. You've got all these parameters and most synthesizers barely have velocity, pitch and mod wheel. Craptacular.

Interestingly, though, the vast majority of presets on the vast majority of synths don't even take advantage of those expressive controls. It does my head in how often I have to add the simplest thing, like velocity modulation, to presets to make them even slightly playable. And I'm not really into all that expressive playing shit.

Those cats don't want to put in the time, and I admit it's considerable, to get good at something like a Linnstrument or Seaboard.

Then there are people like me who can't see the point of putting in the time because they have a computer to do all the hard stuff. I'm not a musician's arsehole and I'm fine with that.

Who's picked up a brand new instrument and felt good about their playing after three days?

I'll put my hand up. I could play my Rise well enough to use it for what I wanted to use it for after a couple of sessions, maybe 3 or 4 hours. The Lightpad Blocks were harder, because the pad/note layout is less than intuitive, but the Erae took me all of two minutes to get right into.

I see it as an overall good thing for the world. It's a great kiddie pool for people do get their MPE feet wet in.

That's a bit f**king arrogant, don't you think? I see the Osmose as being for the really serious keyboard players and things like Seaboards and Erae Touches as being for people like me, who were never good players. Osmose has some really clever features that take it beyond what we've thought of with our MPE controllers, so I understand why they want to call it MPE+. But the reality is that now we know about those things, we can set them up for our controllers, too.

[SteveElbows]

I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying that the Osmose is a toy. Far from it. In terms of keyboards, it's probably the most expressive keyboard ever designed. But the key to that phrase is "in terms of keyboards." It will never give you the full MPE deal that something like the Continuum, Linnstrument or Seaboard does. It's physically impossible. So, as an expressive keyboard, it's the Mariana Trench, but as a full MPE controller, it's the shallow end of the pool.

I have no intention of making the mistake of narrowing the definition of MPE to fit the MPE controllers that have been around the longest. Or of conflating the aspects of specific MPE controllers that I happened to enjoy the most with what counts as full MPE. Or of making claims about MPE controllers that I havent even played myself. Or of judging an instrument by what it cannot do, or does not do that well, without paying sufficient attention to what it does brilliantly.

Theres nothing wrong with you focusing on the things your favourite controllers can do that the Osmose cannot, or that the Osmose can achieve but not via the gestures you are used to. But when that is turned into a much broader claim about what counts as a full MPE instrument, how expressive it can be, how deep it can be, how much potential it has, I cannot agree.

Its not the shallow end of the pool, its got different strengths and weaknesses. Different depths to be unlocked and mastered by the usual means: practice, practice, practice. Judgements about it and any other controller are intimately tied to the person playing them. There are obvious differences in people, there are obvious differences in controllers. I'm happy to acknowledge differences, I'm less comfortable arranging them into a crude overall pecking order.

I'm also not the right person to try to describe the intricacies of the pressure weighted portamento on the Osmose, but it likely does more than you think, especially if setup across a range that invites more than two of the Osmoses keys to be involved in the pitch of a single note. Some of the factory patches are setup like that and its quite something to play with.

[SteveElbows]

I see the Osmose as being for the really serious keyboard players and things like Seaboards and Erae Touches as being for people like me, who were never good players. Osmose has some really clever features that take it beyond what we've thought of with our MPE controllers, so I understand why they want to call it MPE+. But the reality is that now we know about those things, we can set them up for our controllers, too.

I've not been anywhere close to counting myself as a good player when using Seaboards etc over the years, and was still very pleasantly delighted to discover how much I could still get out of those MPE controllers. The same is true of the Osmose, its a joy and there is plenty there for someone like me who is not a piano keys wizard. But yes I get your point when approaching that idea from the other direction, in that accomplished keyboard players should find the Osmose less unfamiliar and offputting than the other controllers, and easier to blend with their existing skillset. But some adaption of their existing technique is still required to get the most out of it. And there will be habits of finger position, angle and pressure that will have effects on the sound on an Osmose that dont have an effect on the keyboards they are used to, including undesirable effects that they will have to learn to overcome.

As for MPE+, technically this just refers to some additional midi data that is generated compared to normal MPE. Mostly some additional cc messages to increase the resolution of the expressive data. And the term comes from Haken rather than expressive e, its been around for ages in the various Haken Continuums.

[zerocrossing]

I have no intention of making the mistake of narrowing the definition of MPE to fit the MPE controllers that have been around the longest.

Hasn’t MPE always meant independent control of each note, including pitch? I thought it did. It definitely does to me, but if you’re happy with their fix, enjoy it. I personally couldn’t think of a better way of having actual keys and doing it, but I guess my point is, I don’t care about keys when I’m using MPE. Am I wrong in the fact that the Osmose is only adding one actual thing to a traditional keyboard? Side to side wiggle? It would seem like everything else it does could be done via software on a keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch.