Yearly OS poll time again!

If you are new here check this forum first, your question may have been answered.

What OSes are you using (or planning on using) for Music Production?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:34 pm

1. Windows
84
51%
2. OSX
48
29%
3. Linux
19
11%
4. I don't use any of the above. I prefer hardware or something else.
3
2%
5. Fish
12
7%
 
Total votes: 166

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audiojunkie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:10 pmThe code is still there. There's nothing stopping you from contributing and making WindowMaker what you want it to be.
Right because why would I waste my time making music when I could be busting a gut trying to finish someone else's abandoned project that 5 other people in the world might benefit from. Much better use of my time, yeah?
While there is no accounting for taste, there's a better chance of finding a useful alternative desktop on Linux than there is on Windows.
Did you miss the bit where I said that Windows 10's UX is about as close to perfect as I can imagine? Because the thing is, it's not about "taste', it's about getting shit done and Windows 10 allows me to get shit done like nothing else I have ever seen.
Let me correct you on this. Stardock does not change the existing Windows Environment that Windows 11 uses. Windows still uses the Windows desktop environment. Stardock is simply a tool for advanced theming, to as you say, "completely customize" the "look" of the Windows desktop environment--but it's still the desktop environment. You could say the same thing about Gnome 3 and Cinnamon. Cinnamon derives from Gnome 3, but follows traditional desktop metaphor conventions. Desktop environments like KDE are completely different code bases with completely different pros and cons when comparing against a desktop environment like Gnome 3. So, unfortunately, you are the one that is "not even close."
You're making distinctions that make no difference. How I interact with the computer is the only thing that matters and both Start 11 and Rainmeter allow me to interact with my computer in ways I otherwise could not. How they achieve that is of zero relevance to me as an end-user, beyond any hit on performance it might entail (both are negligible).
Themes dude. These are all themes. I said desktop environments, not theming the behavior in the same windows desktop environment. Pfffft.... :dog:
Did you not even bother to look at them? As I said, they allow me to interact with my computer in ways I couldn't without them. They don't just change the colours and the wallpaper, they allow me to create a unique environment within which to interact with my computer.
Oh the irony of using Open Source for your example! :hihi: :lol:
As I said, sometimes open source works, sometimes it doesn't. You have to pick and choose, not immerse yourself in an environment where you have no choice but to use it. It might surprise you that I also use and advocate for Blender. But I can remember a time when it was a hot mess and it has taken a very long time for it to get to where it is now, an order of magnitude longer than it would have taken a commercial product. I don't live in an either/or world, I am nowhere near as badly affected by bias as you or most other people. I'll use whatever works best. What I won't do is blindly support something just because.
I'd say, "Never mind!" but you are unable to leave a message without a retort. So how about this? I'll let you respond and get your final say, and I'll let sleeping dogs lie. I'll be waiting...
So you'll stick your fingers in your ears and sing "la-la-la" so you don't have to hear anything that conflicts with your biases. Hardly surprising.
audiojunkie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:00 pmII almost forgot to mention your beloved Asus Zenbook Duo Pro 14: https://davejansen.com/asus-zenbook-duo ... ora-linux/
Did you bother looking at any of these links? They prove my point for me. They guy had to choose a config that he could make work with Linux - "I also personally am not very interested in dealing with NVidia hardware under Linux, as that can come with some unfortunate annoyances and limitations" - so he bought one without discrete graphics. From there things seemed to go well, except "to be able to control the brightness of the secondary display, we need to install a custom kernel module" and "the setup isn't quite set-and-forget, unfortunately. With every kernel update you'll have to re-run a few steps."

Compare that to the Windows user's experience of choose whichever configuration you like, take it out of the box and switch it on and my point is made. It's an operating system, I don't want to have to even think about it, much less install the f**king thing manually.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that people enjoy tinkering with their computers. Most of us do not. I used to do it out of necessity but that need withered and died many years ago. Today I can buy a computer, take it out of the box and switch it on and that's it, it's ready for me to load my applications and get to work. That's perfect for me and for the vast majority of computer users, as evidenced by the paltry 13% of respondents to your poll who are using Linux.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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:hihi: :lol:
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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I said I wouldn't, yet here I am..... :lol:
Did you bother looking at any of these links? They prove my point for me. They guy had to choose a config that he could make work with Linux - "I also personally am not very interested in dealing with NVidia hardware under Linux, as that can come with some unfortunate annoyances and limitations" - so he bought one without discrete graphics. From there things seemed to go well, except "to be able to control the brightness of the secondary display, we need to install a custom kernel module" and "the setup isn't quite set-and-forget, unfortunately. With every kernel update you'll have to re-run a few steps."

Compare that to the Windows user's experience of choose whichever configuration you like, take it out of the box and switch it on and my point is made. It's an operating system, I don't want to have to even think about it, much less install the f**king thing manually.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that people enjoy tinkering with their computers. Most of us do not. I used to do it out of necessity but that need withered and died many years ago. Today I can buy a computer, take it out of the box and switch it on and that's it, it's ready for me to load my applications and get to work. That's perfect for me and for the vast majority of computer users, as evidenced by the paltry 13% of respondents to your poll who are using Linux.
Alright, I'll respond one more time....

The "paltry" 13% has grown by leaps and bounds compared to just last year. Linux is so much better with each year that passes that it is not surprising that more and more musicians are using it. I was curious as to the adoption rate at KVR in the past year. My little survey shows me that Linux usage is going in the right direction. However, you may indeed have hit upon the crux of the situation. I'm willing to get my proverbial "hands" a little dirty for what I see as benefits from Linux. I have always said that the cost of using linux is a bit of a learning curve. I think you are correct. You indeed would do better with a system with a small learning curve, that gives you less options and control. Buy your computer in a box and switch it on..... You voted. :wink:
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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audiojunkie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:21 pm
BBFG# wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:16 am 8) I like how our points are proven without ever knowing it. Unless it is, and then that's just willful ignorance instigated by the usual oppositional defiance.
Hehehe! Well, you know how they say controversy sells...... Maybe I'll get more people to do the survery. :lol:
I refrained from answering further, but since you've taken time to do so, I'll add:

From what I read and hear him saying is that Linux makes him think, he doesn't like to think, and he likes that Windows thinks for him. And that he's okay with them having control over him, his machine and his data/privacy.

That he doesn't want to be checked that he's done something right so that it's safe for others. And that he's put out that he is restricted from shooting people he feels like shooting.

And of course, his standard belief that anyone disagreeing with him is the problem.

Best to just scroll through his comments without reading. Let him continue to just talk to himself.

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what is this fish OS? CuteFish? https://cutefish-ubuntu.github.io/ ?
SoundCloud
"I believe every music producer inherently has something unique about the way they make music. They just have to identify what makes them different, and develop it" - Max Martin

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Sorry for the confusion , it’s an old KVRAudio inside joke. Old timers who have been on this forum a long time like me would get the joke. “Fish” is just an unrelated poll choice that has absolutely nothing to do with the poll.

Think of it as an poll selection option for those who have no interest or don’t care about the poll. 🙂
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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audiojunkie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:27 pm Many of the high performance audio interfaces that are supported by Apple work just fine with Linux. The key thing to look for is class compliance. 8) :tu:
So do the standard audio interfaces (Focusrite, MOTU etc) work on a Linux machine? Do they just directly connect via the USB port? Or do they require a Linux driver too? I think that's what you're getting at with your "class compliance" comment above.

I have a lot of experience with Linux through work but I've never tried using it on a system at home.

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I switched from using Windows and FL Studio to OSX and Logic Pro in the last 6 months. Best thing I've done in a long time (creatively).
DAW: Logic Pro Audio Interface: STUDIO 24c Monitors: ROKIT 5 Microphone: AT2020 Computer: iMac 27" Keyboard: LaunchKEY 49

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bagpipe200 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:18 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:27 pm Many of the high performance audio interfaces that are supported by Apple work just fine with Linux. The key thing to look for is class compliance. 8) :tu:
So do the standard audio interfaces (Focusrite, MOTU etc) work on a Linux machine? Do they just directly connect via the USB port? Or do they require a Linux driver too? I think that's what you're getting at with your "class compliance" comment above.

I have a lot of experience with Linux through work but I've never tried using it on a system at home.
On Windows, Class Compliant hardware is frowned upon, because Windows requires special drivers to make class compliant hardware work at low latencies. ASIO4ALL helps, but that’s about as good as it gets for class compliant hardware on windows without the company including a special driver.

On Linux, it’s quite different—class compliant hardware is simply plug-n-play, with the drivers built into the kernel.

Linux gets most of its low latency capabilities through the kernel and realtime scheduling permissions, rather than from a special driver like ASIO. By granting realtime scheduling permissions and adding a couple of boot time commandline parameters (to thread irqs and to use full preemption), you can easily have decent low latency. If you wanted to get even better latency, you can add a startup script that prioritizes irq threads for audio. The script is already written and is available for all.

Most MacOS audio hardware, and all iOS audio hardware is class compliant. I use several different audio interfaces—Focusrite is one of them. MOTU has several. There are way more devices available than one realizes. There’s even pro multichannel interfaces that can do 18+ channels. The only caveat that you have to watch out for is anything using onboard DSP or requiring any interface control through software. That functionality is usually custom coded and very OS specific. So, when looking for a linux audio interface, make sure it is class compliant to guarantee that the device works, and make sure you can access all of the functionality on the device through actual controls, buttons and switches (avoid software controlled functionality unless you don’t need that functionality—including onboard DSP For example, built in effects). Aside from that, there’s nothing to worry about with linux audio interfaces. 🙂

This is a limited (far from complete, and mostly outdated) list of audio interfaces available. While not a great list, it does serve a good purpose of showing examples of some of the hardware you can get for linux:

https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/hardware_support

Here’s another link to some:

https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Matrix:Main

The key thing to remember though is my simple hard and fast rules above: Class compliant, no dsp, able to access needed functionality through hardware controls, not software. 🙂
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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bagpipe200 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:18 pm So do the standard audio interfaces (Focusrite, MOTU etc) work on a Linux machine? Do they just directly connect via the USB port? Or do they require a Linux driver too?
Aye the Focusrite and Behringer ones I've tried have worked out of the box, plug n play. Not tried MOTU but if it's class compliant then it'll work as is. As far as I understand it, the drivers are already written into Linux kernels.

Long story short, I've messed with Linux in the past (read: 15 years ago) but never really got going. In 2021 however instead of buying a more powerful Windows machine, I took my older laptop and swapped 2 hardware components and slapped Linux Mint on as an OS and honestly can't be happier. The thing flies, does all that I want and more.

I don't even use Yabridge or Wine, only interested in Linux native software and plugs. Couldn't be happier.
www.cel10.com

There are better signatures out there.

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We’re getting close to the end of the survey for another year. Please get your responses in if you haven’t already done so. 🙂
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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Final day! The poll will be done for another year. Please vote if you haven’t done so! 🙂
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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you'd get more responses outside the getting started forum.
:ud:

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Which form would you recommend for a question like this in the future?
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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audiojunkie wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:16 pm Which form would you recommend for a question like this in the future?
ive seen them get a number of responses in hosts before now.

although, that could just be, the forum in general was busier then?
:ud:

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