The linux DAW thread

[glokraw]

sysrqer from www.linuxmusicians.com has this good news:

"Zam plugins now have a clap and vst3 version".

This is a large and varied cross-plaltform collection
The future can run, but it can't hide!

https://www.zamaudio.com/?p=976

[mryan4]

I've just tried Linux for audio production, and it's much easier than I expected. I've found a variety of audio plugins in Flatpak that I've installed easily. But it seems neither Reaper nor Bitwig can find them, even when I change the plugin location to the flatpak folder. Any idea what's going on?

[audiojunkie]

Because of the sandboxing and security in flatpak, the easiest thing to do is the following:

1. If using a flatpakked daw, use flatpakked plugins.

2. If using a non-flatpakked daw, use non-flatpakked plugins.

There are some exceptions—a flatpakked daw can see files in the user’s home folder, so if a plugin is simple enough or built to have everything it needs accessible through the home folder, then a non-flatpakked plugin should work in a flatpakked daw, as long as you tell the daw where to look for the plugins.

Is your daw flatpak packaged? If not, obtain your plugin binaries through your local repository provided by your distro or through a reputable source like Github. Then, make sure you tell the daw the path to the plugins. If your daw is flatpakked, then do as recommended above—use flatpakked plugins.

I hope this helps!

[mryan4]

This does help, thanks!

My main DAW is Reaper, which doesn't seem to have a Flatpak yet (seriously, why not?) I could try Bitwig, but I'm far more comfortable with Reaper. Is there any way to override this to make the Flatpak location readable from a non-Flatpak DAW? I can see the installed files at /var/lib/flatpak/runtime/, but Flatseal only seems to work with apps, not runtime folder.

I could just use deb file installers, but using the package manager just seems so convenient and part of the reason I switched to Linux over the mess of installers and files all over the place on Windows...

[audiojunkie]

This does help, thanks!

My main DAW is Reaper, which doesn't seem to have a Flatpak yet (seriously, why not?) I could try Bitwig, but I'm far more comfortable with Reaper. Is there any way to override this to make the Flatpak location readable from a non-Flatpak DAW? I can see the installed files at /var/lib/flatpak/runtime/, but Flatseal only seems to work with apps, not runtime folder.

I could just use deb file installers, but using the package manager just seems so convenient and part of the reason I switched to Linux over the mess of installers and files all over the place on Windows...

If you are using DEB packages, I’ll assume you are using a Debian variant of some type. Your easiest and best bet is to install a tool called GDebi. It is a GUI based package installer. It makes things a breeze when downloading DEB plugins.

Don’t bother with trying to get flatpak and non-flatpak tools to work together if you aren’t using Bitwig. Find the plugins you want to use from these locations and in this order:

1. Install and use the plugins you want from your distro’s repo first. They’ve been tested to work with your distro.
2. If the plugin isn’t available in your local repo, then search for the github (or Sourceforge or Gitlab) site plugin project you are wanting to get your binary (DEB package) from.
3. For commercial or freeware plugins, search the developer’s web site.
4. For packages you can’t find elsewhere, use 3rd party repos that you can trust. An example of a good one for the Debian family of distros is the KXStudio repo run by FalkTX.
5. Never install the same package from different source. Keep only one version of a package installed at a time. Always uninstall the installed plugin before replacing it with a new one. This prevents library mismatch problems.

Another thing to consider is using a distro that is already prepared and configured for audio. A fine example of such a distro is AVLinux, built by Gmaq.

Linux music making is fun! People often just don’t know the easiest way to get started.

Edit: Here’s a list of open source plugins to get you started:

LinuxSampler (Also needs Qsampler & Gigedit)
Odin2
Surge-XT
Airwindows (gui-less) airwindows.com
Linux Studio Plugins
Yoshimi
AVL Drums — x42-plugins.com
Cardinal
GxPlugins.lv2
X42-Plugins x42-plugins.com
MDA-lv2 Plugins (gui-less) (David Robillard on Gitlab)
DrumGizmo
Sfizz
Dexed
FluidSynthPlug, Fluida.lv2, or FluidSynthVST
Monique
Helm
Dragonfly Reverbs
LibreArp
Elephant DSP Room Reverb (binaries on Github)
Mverb ( github.com/figbug/mverb )
LV2 port of the C* Audio Plugins Suite (caps-lv2)
Ninjas2
ADLPlug
Fire (Distortion plugin)
Geonkick
Guitarix.vst (new project—just getting started by the original Guitarix developer and may not be ready for regular use yet)

[mryan4]

Thanks for the help, Audiojunkie!

I am using an Ubuntu based distro. I've searched in my package manager and I only see the Flatpak versions of plugins like Surge XT (such a great plugin that I don't think I will miss Windows only plugins too much). I've tested with Bitwig and I can't seem to get it to even see the Flatpak folder to select as a location for plugins.

For now, I've downloaded Surge XT and a few others from Plugins4Free, a site that I've trusted for years with Windows plugins. These have been either .deb installers or zip files that I can extract to a place Reaper can find them. It's not a perfect solution, but it's fine for now. After all, we should be spending our time writing music, right?

But if anyone has an idea of how to make Flatpak VSTs work, I'd love to hear it.

[audiojunkie]

It is better to get your plugins from the developer’s site. Install GDebi and then go download the Surge DEB file from here:

https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/

Once downloaded, use GDebi to install it.

Then go to reaper and add the path to the plugin to Reaper’s list of plugin paths.

Once Reaper sees the plugin, you’re set.

[Largos]

Thanks for the help, Audiojunkie!

I am using an Ubuntu based distro. I've searched in my package manager and I only see the Flatpak versions of plugins like Surge XT (such a great plugin that I don't think I will miss Windows only plugins too much). I've tested with Bitwig and I can't seem to get it to even see the Flatpak folder to select as a location for plugins.

For now, I've downloaded Surge XT and a few others from Plugins4Free, a site that I've trusted for years with Windows plugins. These have been either .deb installers or zip files that I can extract to a place Reaper can find them. It's not a perfect solution, but it's fine for now. After all, we should be spending our time writing music, right?

But if anyone has an idea of how to make Flatpak VSTs work, I'd love to hear it.

Using flatpak is a bad idea for audio software like VST and DAW's. Often the flatpaks (like Surge XT) are not official packages because of this. When you install a VST from a deb file, it will install it in /usr/lib/vst As you have seen, when you install a flatpak it will likely install it in it's own version of /usr/lib/vst which is why it won't show up on the DAW's can. Maybe you could manually set it each time to go to each flatpak's vst directory but that's not very user friendly.

For a DAW, well they won't by default be able to find any plugins external from their container.

[mryan4]

Making some progress here. Installed KX studios repo and now I can see some of their synths (but others, like Surge, still seem to be showing as Flatpak, might change if I change the default sources of my package manager).

I get that Flathub doesn't seem great for audio plugins, but then I wonder, why do people keep packaging their plugins with Flathub instead of a better solution, like .deb? Why not get these plugins into mainstream repos like Ubuntu's by default to make things easier for everyone? And this would also provide automatic updates, unlike the manual install route.

Thanks again to everyone who's been making my transition to Linux music making more knowledge and successful!

[mryan4]

Wait, is Surge XT not in KX Studios repo? It's not listed on their website. That might explain why I can't find it, haha.

[audiojunkie]

Flathub is one of several technologies that are trying to solve the problem of cross distribution package compatibility. In my opinion, it is the most promising technology. However, to work with Flatpak, you’ve got to go “all in” with Flatpak. If you use Flatpak at all for audio, the best experience is to be had by only using Flatpak plugins. The problem is adoption. Because there are competing solutions, no clear winner has yet been determined—if ever there will be one. Until the daw you want to use and every plugin you want to use is prepared for Flatpak, so that they work together well, Flatpak is not ideal. The Bitwig developer is essentially a pioneer of the process. He’s the first to adopt the technology. I give a much better explanation in a post I did on another forum a while back:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 59#p148159

So, yes, Flatpak holds tremendous promise, and someday it may be feasible to do audio work through Flatpak packaged software other than Bitwig, Ardour, and a handful of flatpak packaged open source plugins. But for now, until that time, the best way to get the most (and best) plugins and tools is to use a DAW and plugins that don’t use Flatpak. Things are moving really fast in the linux world, so things may change in a couple of years.

The good news for you, is that almost everything audio related has DEB support. My recommendation, since you mentioned it, would be to use Reaper. Reaper uses an install script to install it. It’s really easy, and the process is guided. Then, as I mentioned above, go to the original developer’s site and download the binaries in DEB format, and then install them with GDebi.

If that feels a little difficult for you, I highly recommend getting started with Linux through a distro that has done all of the preparation and configuration work for you, such as AVLinux.

[mryan4]

Thanks for this, Audiojunkie. I suppose we will all be waiting for the utopian day that DAWs have Flatpaks, but they won't do it until there's enough Flatpak software, which won't happen until there are Flatpak DAWs (the chicken and egg problem).

Reaper was no problem for me to install, and it even runs without being installed. Of course, Reaper is lacking its own instruments compared to Bitwig, etc., but I think I can get enough Linux instruments to cover my needs.

[farlukar]

utopian

Where does this obsession with container software come from?

[audiojunkie]

utopian

Where does this obsession with container software come from?

I believe it comes from the GUI-based click to install ease that Flatpak offers. Most of the package managers out there have GUI capability, but personally, I'm still a fan of DNF from the commandline. That said, I do remember when I was first getting into Linux how easy Flatpak seemed to me. I don't know if it's better marketing or publicity or what, but Flatpak drew me in back then somehow--probably much like how it's drawing others in. Possibly because it was easy and held a promise of not causing dependency hell, I suspect. I do still like Flatpak and hope to see it (or something even better) adopted as a good cross distro distribution method for developers. However, I know that until the linux music making software industry adopts it, there's not much point in it for audio--it's best to avoid the sandboxing package managers for audio work. It's still beneficial for other tools that don't use interactions with plugins. Debian is a great example, with it being approximately 2 years behind everything else. The sandboxing package managers such as Flatpak, Snap, and appimage allow the solid, stable Debian to use modern apps as well. So, I'm not against the idea at all, but I don't know which sandboxing package manager will win--if any of them do, and I don't think it's the best choice for now for DAWs and plugins.

[Largos]

utopian

Where does this obsession with container software come from?

It's because some people want "commercial" "pro" software to be on Linux to provide some kind of validation. They see Flatpak as a vehicle for this because it's a distro agnostic packaging system. Never mind the technological downsides of using it for audio production, that won't be addressed because they are inherent in the design and philosophy of a container app.