KVR Audio

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:56 am

Hi folks,

I've been messing around with SubLab XL, and have been trying to re-create some of the patches in Halion 6 (because the SubLab envelopes are very limited and basic) and i was 90% successful.

However, in one area, i can't match SubLab, and that's in the distortion.

I tried about 20 different distortion plugins, and i can't even get close. I think it's some kind of harmonic distortion, but i'm not sure.

I'd really like to use this distortion on other synths, but unfortunately SubLab doesn't take an audio input so i can't use it as an FX plugin.

So i'm curious if anyone has got any ideas about what kind of distortion SubLab is doing and if there are other plugins that can give the same sound?

Here below is a link to two zip files.

The first contains the raw WAVs (sine, tri, saw, square) coming out of SubLab, and also two different distortion settings (with and without "fatness").

The second zip contains the same distortion files, but with a filter applied (115hz to 835 hz - see attached screenshot). This filter must be post-distortion, but i can't quite work out if it's just hi / low cut off (and what slope?), or something multi-band, or? ......... also interesting to note, though not really relevant here, is that when you play the synth sound up and down the keyboard, i think this filter also does some key-tracking.

Anyways, curious if anyone has some suggestions. For myself, the closest i got (which was not very close) was SoundToy's Decapitator and Steinberg's Distroyer.

One other note: you'll notice the raw waveforms coming out of SubLab aren't pure, they're a little warmer, also curious if anyone has an opinion about that.

ZIP 1:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMcRk2 ... share_link

ZIP 2:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XVjyVR ... sp=sharing

IMG-2330-min (2).jpg

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:24 pm

"File does not exist" on both your zip links.

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:28 pm

plexuss wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:24 pm "File does not exist" on both your zip links.

Thanks, i fixed them..........

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:06 pm

Got this reply from Gavin (the maker of SubLab XL):

"Hey Mr D,

Yeah, its a little bit of special (secret ) sauce that we put together because it specifically sounds nice on sub-bass sounds.

Gavin."

So that throws down to gauntlet to reverse engineer that distortion!

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:46 pm

I have SubLab XL and I hear what you mean. I tried Kelvin and a couple other distortion tools but I can't get it to sound like the SLXL distortion which seems to have a strong harmonic with weaker higher harmonics and also seems to envelope follow somehow giving the pre sound more bounce.

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:23 pm

plexuss wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:46 pm I have SubLab XL and I hear what you mean. I tried Kelvin and a couple other distortion tools but I can't get it to sound like the SLXL distortion which seems to have a strong harmonic with weaker higher harmonics and also seems to envelope follow somehow giving the pre sound more bounce.

Exactly, i was just checking it out more and indeed it seems to have some built in movement to it, as the sound decays, the highs come back, when the bass note is sustained, the highs get pushed away. almost seems like the distortion moves from low to high as the sound decays. Weird.

Also seems like the 3rd harmonic is very strong.

And it seems to manage to brickwall the level without adding the annoying dissonant harmonics normally associated with clipping.

Digivolt · Post by **Digivolt** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:31 pm

Is there a way to tell by doing a dry version, then adding a wet version but phase inverted so you can see the delta of the distortion and go from there trying to recreate it ?

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:53 pm

Digivolt wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:31 pm Is there a way to tell by doing a dry version, then adding a wet version but phase inverted so you can see the delta of the distortion and go from there trying to recreate it ?

Good idea. I did it. I hear it. But I am not sure what to make of it... it sounds like there is the equavalent of a Boss Octaver on the distortion signal, among some higher harmonics...

https://www.boss.info/ca/products/oc-5/ Hardware

https://www.audiority.com/shop/octaver-82/ Software emulation

Here are the audio files

Dry signal with distortion off
https://plexus.bandcamp.com/track/subla ... on-off-dry

100% wet signal (distortion on mixed with phase inverted distortion off)
https://plexus.bandcamp.com/track/subla ... n-only-wet

OzoneJunkie · Post by **OzoneJunkie** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:06 pm

You might try Infiltrator. I've gotten some distortion stuff out of that, that I tried to replicate elsewhere and failed.

I was considering selling Infiltrator and was trying to see if there was something that would prompt me to keep it - but even outside of the distortion, I still found that I really liked it so decided to keep it.

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:05 am

Listening to the distortions a bit more and looking at them on the scope, i having a feeling they might not be distortions at all, but are actually synthesized by mixing wave types, waveshaping, folding etc. The upper harmonics are too perfect and clean.

Because the distortion is so even and controlled, played up and down the keyboard, it almost can't be real distortion, it sounds too perfect and synthesized.

Kinda reminds me of Razor, with its simulated effects and reverb.

But what about the fact that the samples also run through the distortion? Well, i just did a little experiment: i imported my clean triangle wave (which originated in SubLab) as a sample, and ran it through the distortion. It sounds completely different than the triangle generated directly in SubLab running through the distortion! Actually 3 of the distortions sound the same, but the first 3 are much richer when the triangle comes directly out of SubLab.

If this is in fact how they're getting such a rich and controlled distortion effect (mixing real and synthesized distortion for the sample and synth parts of the engine), it's completely f**king ingenious!

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:25 am

Mr D wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:05 am If this is in fact how they're getting such a rich and controlled distortion effect (mixing real and synthesized distortion for the sample and synth parts of the engine), it's completely f**king ingenious!

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... synth.html

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:07 am

Interesting thread.

Just to add I think SubLab XL sounds absolutely amazing.

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:22 am

Doh, I'm an idiot, it's right there on their website!

https://futureaudioworkshop.com/what-is ... synthesis/

Ploki · Post by **Ploki** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:53 am

I loved dark drive when i had it. Before i sold it i did my best to get something close to it.

The closest i came was with Voxengo Powershaper, i have two DarkDrive presets i made for it that I use frequently on basses now.

Mr D · Post by **Mr D** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:58 am

Ploki wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:53 am I loved dark drive when i had it. Before i sold it i did my best to get something close to it.

The closest i came was with Voxengo Powershaper, i have two DarkDrive presets i made for it that I use frequently on basses now.

Great, please run my examples through Powershaper so we can hear it!

Anyway, i'm sure that the first 3 distortion settings are actually synthesized harmonics, but still nice to have a real distortion option.

Esoteric distortion question / challenge (SubLab XL)