Sad state of Native Instruments

[martinjuenke]

First I abandoned Plugin Alliance: no problem, nothing really important on offer.

Then I abandoned iZotope: Acon, TDR, Focusrite FAST and Gullfoss are very good substitutions.

Now I'm on my way to abandon NI: my 3rd party Kontakt content will limit my exit but I try my best (and will not invest further monies on upgrades and so on).

If Soniccouture switch to a native plattform I'd really be happy!

[noiseboyuk]

I feel like the future doesn’t belong to samples. It belongs to physical modeling and machine learning vector resynthesis.

Plus, the big libraries to have now are East West, Vienna Instruments, Spitfire, and UJAM, plus sample-based instruments like Omnisphere, Heavyocity, Ample Sound, and UVI. All of these have their own players that don’t rely on Kontakt.

I've been surprised at how slow the development of modelled instruments has been, and how patchy the results are. Sample Modelling's The Trumpet was 2008, and we all though the future had arrived. In 2023 are great triumphs and a lot of so-so or plain bad modelled instruments. For some it's a solution in search of a problem (see MODO drums - which has to rely on samples for the cymbals anyway). Modelling isn't always necessary and offers few advantages. It tends to work best on solo melodic instruments, but even then I've not been swayed by strings much.

So we're a very long way from samples being replaced. I can't think of a single orchestral ensemble that works well as modelled. But you're right on the evolution of other players. EW's Play was hopeless 15 years ago, today Opus is dead slick. Spitfire and OT's Sine aren't great but they do sort of get the job done.

This means that overall Kontakt is definitely in a decline. But I think it will be a long time til it goes completely.

[wangeroge]

Their latest product (another sampleset with a pretty picture) doesn’t even have the correct amount of black keys on its keyboard

This was probably made by artficial intelligence. Pictures of humans often have the wrong number of fingers.

[gentleclockdivider]

big brains who made absynth and reaktor no longer there, so get on the sample base diet and deal with it

Yes ( one of )the original developers Stephan Schmidt has left the building and started non linear labs .
But , big brain Vadim Zavalishin who developed Reaktor's Core dsp language is still on the main developers team , and let's be honoust without core reaktor would not be where it's today .
Vadim Zavalishin is the driving force behind reaktor , he also introduced the zdf filters.
So as long as Vadim is there , I'm good
https://www.adsrsounds.com/useful-artic ... avalishin/

[xbow]

For me, NIs biggest selling point is NKS mapped synths and sample libraries that I can browse, tweak and jam with on Maschine or KK keyboards without touching my mouse or looking at the computer screen. For hands-on jamming and recording ideas, I find that standardized approach much more inspiring and streamlined than fiddling around with file explorers and drop down menus in my DAW. I don't see any serious competition for NI in that field (except MPC in the beat box area, suggestions are welcome if I'm missing anything!).

So I don't see myself abandoning the ecosystem anytime soon.

That said, it is indeed sad that synth and dsp development has pretty much stalled, and I am getting more hesitant buying more stuff from them.

[zvenx]

Also Stephan did do some work with NI afterhe left. Not sure if he still does though.

rsp

big brains who made absynth and reaktor no longer there, so get on the sample base diet and deal with it

Yes ( one of )the original developers Stephan Schmidt has left the building and started non linear labs .
But , big brain Vadim Zavalishin who developed Reaktor's Core dsp language is still on the main developers team , and let's be honoust without core reaktor would not be where it's today .
Vadim Zavalishin is the driving force behind reaktor , he also introduced the zdf filters.
So as long as Vadim is there , I'm good
https://www.adsrsounds.com/useful-artic ... avalishin/

[elxsound]

Their latest product (another sampleset with a pretty picture) doesn’t even have the correct amount of black keys on its keyboard

This is the first time I looked at the picture, but I would guess the same. It’s marketing only now.



By the way I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be some grumbling about a purchase, but everything you wrote is fair as far as I can see.


I do think it’s likely strange times at NI, Izotope and PA. They’re taking the long messy road to unifying their products. That’s not an excuse, but just an assumption based on Dirk’s rambling PA email.

[SLiC]

I am also heavily invested- Maschine, KK Mk2, Ultimate so I hope they pull through this but it does seem like a death spiral, a little bit worse/more disappointing every year.

[zvenx]

I have a relationship with NI, but never the less I do think the OP's post was fair and on point.
I am not sure I think they are in a death spiral in the sense that they will go out of business soon, but it is indeed clear to me, many users and quite a few beta testers that the shift from creative technology developers to content producers has taken place, and has for a few years now.

The good news to me is that there are quite a few other great developers that create, develop and sell great vst's compared to when NI was THE game in town.
rsp

[pdxindy]

I no longer have anything from NI on my main audio computer. I'll be happy to use their stuff in the future if they turn things around.

[cryophonik]

Their latest product (another sampleset with a pretty picture) doesn’t even have the correct amount of black keys on its keyboard

What.. you’ve never played H or H#?

[jules99]

While I do share the disappointment about the lack of innovation at NI in recent years, circle-jerky threads like these just show what a niche audience resides at KVR.

If you browse around VI-control, Kontakt is still widely used, (third party) Kontakt libraries are still THE main source for film and tv music.

If you check out younger producer circles on social media and tutorial channels on YouTube, no other brand is as present as NI when it comes to controllers and often sampled instruments. NI still makes a shitload of money from their controllers and instruments like their Play series or the ever-growing number of expansions. Not because any of these suck, but because each (controllers, samples instruments, versatility of expansions) are still among the best in the industry.

Their run of innovative product after innovative product from 2005 to 2015 is unmatched. No other company today comes close in terms of the impact Kore, Massive, FM8, Reaktor, Guitar Rig and Kontakt had.

[DCrown]

While I do share the disappointment about the lack of innovation at NI in recent years, circle-jerky threads like these just show what a niche audience resides at KVR.

If you browse around VI-control, Kontakt is still widely used, (third party) Kontakt libraries are still THE main source for film and tv music.

Oh, NI hired you this year?
How else could you know how much money NI do make?! lol
Just kidding, of course everyone is
aware of the fact there are still some fanboys
left
NI has become BY FAR the most uncreative, uninspiring and boring dev in not just my opinion.
Claims or assumptions? , any proofs?
VI Control is not the benchmark,
whereas KVR is widely considered the benchmark.

[rod_zero]

Late stage capitalism, big investment funds buy companies not to turn profit year after year but to suck up all the value out of them firing employees, selling assets and cutting costs everywhere.

They did this to Blizzard too, no more innovation or even new stuff, just milk the IP to death with the lowest HR cost possible.

[noiseboyuk]

VI Control is not the benchmark,
whereas KVR is widely considered the benchmark.

That's genuinely hilarious.