Which DAW to create MPE/MPE+ realtime-play patches ?

[Funky40]

Heya,

I have a Osmose keyboard and need to create some MPE realtime-play patches in a DAW.

i have the following DAWs at hand ( full version /latest):
- Ableton Live 11 ( the only one i really can operate)
- studio one 6 ( i think i found my way thru the basic operation, finally)
- Bitwig ( i like how it looks, sharp graphics, could be mine, But: i was NOT able to do any midi CC mapping vs. HW controllers when i tryed. still need to look into the "load scipt" thing. Not used it again )
- Logic ( i think i can operate now the basics. well, i allways forget the same things.)

i kind of hate all of them.
Live is really the only one i can operate. ( hate the long loading times, and the whole preset management ( can only load one project at once)

i usually use Gigperformer, which might not be the right choice for MPE patches, i guess

To which of these DAWs should i put my weight on, vs. MPE+ patch creations ?
ahh, edit, wait, two questions:
1. Which one versus a quick and fluffy start for the starters for first MPE patch attempts ?
2. which one versus a long term view ( i guess bitwig ? )


again: i just hate all DAWs. I´m not made for them.
well, now its time, i need to.........


ahh, edit 2:
Live 11 has HUGE latency !!
(no point of discussion vs. this thread please/ its incomparable vs. GigPerformer. M1mac, good TB3 AI )
Latency IS a point !!

[pdxindy]

Bitwig is the best DAW for MPE...

Whichever DAW you decide upon, there is going to be a learning curve. There's stuff to figure out and you just gotta put the time in.

[SLiC]

Do you mean use the Osmose as a controller for MPE VSTS (in which case its just MPE) or record the midi output of MPE+ for the EM Engine?

Obviously the Osmose EM engine is the lowest latency, but if you are using MPE VST Plugins the you will find the latency is set by your computers audio interface more than the DAW which will have a minimal effect. Live worked for for me.

[Funky40]

Bitwig is the best DAW for MPE...

Now that the Osmose has finally landed, it seems its time then, to give Bitwig its time.
Yeah, i thought it must be BW when it comes to MPE. Thanks for voting

Do you mean use the Osmose as a controller for MPE VSTS (in which case its just MPE)

yes, this,.....and hopefully also chaining a MPE instrument with MPE ready FX

Recording as a later option, but keeping everything just plugin based.
To sequenze the Osmoses own Eagen Matrix from outside might be a fun idea, though.


had some first attempts yesterday late.
Was way easier than initially thought to just have a simple MPE Instrument playing.
in fact i had to do nothing at all.
( just select "MPE" within the Osmose itself)

[SLiC]

Yup- Live, Bigwig and S1 all have 'use MPC' options so it should be pretty easy!
After that its just what you prefer to edit on.

[Funky40]

Great, thanks for Feedback.
it helps to invest my time the right way.

[pdxindy]

Bitwig is the best DAW for MPE...

Now that the Osmose has finally landed, it seems its time then, to give Bitwig its time.
Yeah, i thought it must be BW when it comes to MPE. Thanks for voting

Yeah, if you are serious about MPE and really digging into what can be done, then Bitwig is unmatched.

Live is handicapped because it does not record midi channel data for each note. So it will fail to play back correctly in a variety of situations. Cubase is the next best after Bitwig.

The thing is, no other DAW has Bitwig's modulation system. Other DAW's have modulation, but only monophonic, not per note. So you can do all sorts of creative stuff with MPE in Bitwig that no other DAW can do. This is with Bitwig Instruments, but now with the arrival of CLAP which supports Poly Modulation, the per voice modulation system of Bitwig also can work with CLAP plugins that support PolyMod. That includes the u-he synths (except Zebra 2) and Surge. The u-he CLAP synths are still in beta and the pitch slide (X axis) is not currently working in the betas, but it will be fixed in the next couple months or so before the official releases. U-he also plans to support MPE+

One example of what can be done with Bitwig Instruments and the PolyMod CLAP plugins is you can have note aftertouch (or Timbre) completely change what the notes are doing. You could have a pluck sound repeating as 1/8th notes and then pressing a bit farther and it turns into a pad and then farther it becomes a drum playing on the quarter note. And that is per note. You could do that with Vital actually cause every mod destination has a Mod Curve that is an MSEG... but it would be really tedious to do with lots of destinations in layers like that. In Bitwig, it's really fast and easy to create complex setups and also trivial to edit into completely different ideas.

Bitwig opens up a whole new range of ideas for using MPE and controlling stuff in realtime per note... beyond just playing an expressive melody. No other DAW even comes close.

[Funky40]

Bitwig opens up a whole new range of ideas for using MPE and controlling stuff in realtime per note... beyond just playing an expressive melody. No other DAW even comes close.

thanks for further pointing towards "to where it can lead" with BW.
i got me two UHE Synths at the last sale too.
it will take me LOTS of time to digg in, though.
Thanks @pdxindy

[pdxindy]

[SLiC]

If you are using Bitwig the only way I could get it to work properly was using the Roli controller template but select Osmose as the input. Works as a controller then but no portamento slide (that only with the EM synth so far due to a copywrite apparently!)

Unless I am missing something one disadvantage of Bigwig is you have to switch between lanes to see expression, for example, velocity, timber or pressure- With Live you can see all expression lines at the same time which I find useful.

Also given the amount of midi data generated and if you are using the Osmose and recoding the performance as audio (benefiting from MPE+ higher resolution/scan etc) the lack of midi comping is a bit annoying in Bitwig. The Osmose is so expressive I have been treating it like an acoustic instrument and just comping it in then editing audio if needed.

[Funky40]

If you are using Bitwig the only way I could get it to work properly was using the Roli controller template but select Osmose as the input. Works as a controller then but no portamento slide (that only with the EM synth so far due to a copywrite apparently!)

Unless I am missing something one disadvantage of Bigwig is you have to switch between lanes to see expression, for example, velocity, timber or pressure- With Live you can see all expression lines at the same time which I find useful.

i´ll see.
i´m just doing my first steps in BW to get my normal HW Knob controllers working. For starters, lol.
just installed the moss script. This is all new to me.....

right now i´m on it to use Osmose with my common patches in Gigerformer,
which is my common play-Host.
mpe Pitchbends works there. But i don´t arrive with additional CC.
So, looks like GP is very limited for now vs. a MPE keyboard. ( which i had expected)

[pdxindy]

Unless I am missing something one disadvantage of Bigwig is you have to switch between lanes to see expression, for example, velocity, timber or pressure- With Live you can see all expression lines at the same time which I find useful.

Yeah, that is a nice workflow advantage in Live.

The lack of recording midi channel data per note in Live is just too big a limitation.

For example, using my Linnstrument to play my Elektron Analog Keys as a 4 voice MPE synth. The Analog Keys has 4 tracks and I set the Linnstrument to send midi channels 1-4. If I were to record that into Live, it would not play back correctly because Live doesn't record the midi channel and just round robins midi channels when it plays back. It plays back 1-16 so only about 25% of the notes would play.

The Linnstruments note per row mode completely fails in Live. Also, if you put different synths on different midi channels, and play it with an MPE controller, it will play back in a different order when recorded than how it was when you played it realtime.

Until Live adds midi channel support, their MPE implementation is incomplete. Early on Bitwig did the same thing, but us MPE folks made a big stick and they added midi channel support (which has other big advantages!)

Which reminds me a question I have been wondering. Can you set the midi channels to be used on the Osmose? In other words, could I set it to only output 1-4 so one could use it to control the Analog Four/Keys?

[Funky40]

Which reminds me a question I have been wondering. Can you set the midi channels to be used on the Osmose? In other words, could I set it to only output 1-4 so one could use it to control the Analog Four/Keys?

in MPE mode, you can set the "end CH" as you wish, 2-16.
The "Master channel" is set to 1 it seems. ( it shows a "1", greyed out)

in "Multi CH" mode, can you set the "start CH" and the "end CH" freely from 1-16.

Can´t mnake further comments on this.

[pdxindy]

Which reminds me a question I have been wondering. Can you set the midi channels to be used on the Osmose? In other words, could I set it to only output 1-4 so one could use it to control the Analog Four/Keys?

in MPE mode, you can set the "end CH" as you wish, 2-16.
The "Master channel" is set to 1 it seems. ( it shows a "1", greyed out)

in "Multi CH" mode, can you set the "start CH" and the "end CH" freely from 1-16.

Can´t mnake further comments on this.

Thanks... very useful functionality!

[Funky40]

Thanks... very useful functionality!

its clearly visible that the Osomose comes from people who actually make music,
not just in the laborytory.
Its not all perfect yet. But MANY details speak the language of folks who have spent months using their own gear/protos AND who are clever and also pasionate chaps.

whats lacking for now:
you can´t save right now "external midi" configurations.
This is planned, they stated it somewhere.
Though, setup changes are donne very quickly, just on the fly.
And no transposition available for the keyboard from what i gather