Sad state of Native Instruments

[PieBerger]

I see you deftly avoided mentioning HISE, which does have the power to out gun Kontakt - and then some

Pretty much every DAW can do what Pro Tools does and more in some cases, but PT is still industry standard. It's not about whether something else is the "better" solution and has the power the outgun any current offering, it's that industry standards shift at a glacial pace.

[noiseboyuk]

glokraw hits the nail on the head. 20 years ago the vst software space was exploding as many people like me were getting into this virtual instrument thing and there was not that many good choices in the way of vst's. Now, most of us buy out of want not need. Who here doesn't have like 20 software analog style synths that the average consumer would think sound mostly the same? And the younger generation is hooked on social media, games, screens and doesn't have much time to practice music. Plus there is a whole lot more competition out their for anything vst related, plus you have a not so great economy and people just not having as much money.

So it's all kind of a perfect storm. And software companies need to cut costs, run increasing sales, and sell to a dumbed down audience that is used to having everything come easy.

Another good analysis.

There is an interesting groupthink at work here on KVR, and it goes something like this - programming your own synths = good, playing presets = bad. There's a pretty heavy engineering mentality where purity in terms of timing, authenticity of modelling, aliasing etc is also deemed morally good. But what tends to happen in the real world is that musicians sit down in front of a keyboard, stab a couple of presets and say "that'll do". I've lost count of the analysis videos of classic tracks where the main sound was just what they had lying around and they made something killer with it - usually because it was a fantastic singer and song.

I've long thought that the vast majority of time spent arguing and caring about these sorts of things is all displacement activity. Pretty much the only real benefit I can think of about most of these concerns is that it might inspire the artist to make something good with it, not just be self-pleased at their knowledge, ears and powers of analysis.

In that sense, for the industry the game is long-since up. I'm pretty sure any songwriter or producer could make brilliant music just with freebies and talent. A composer requiring orchestral and realistic acoustic instruments would need more outlay, but $2k all-in would probably do it. Komplete would be an excellent start.

Perhaps the really insidious part of all this for the industry is that the barrier of entry to making something that sounds good is now so low that almost literally anyone can do it, meaning we are now in the situation where 100,000 new songs are released PER DAY. That means the good stuff is ever harder to find and break through.

So what do the big companies who need to make money to survive do? They all, in different ways, are providing the shovels and pick axes to the gold-diggers, and they're the ones making the money not the prospectors themselves. Those hopefuls want to believe that success will come to them if only they had a more realistic emulation of an ARP 2600, that their creativity is thwarted because nobody has made a perfect JX-8P yet and they refuse to subscribe to Roland Cloud on a point of principle.

I think Arturia are a fantastic company, but does anyone need a V Collection 10? Will that make more better songs than another 10 products in NI's Play series in Komplete 14? I know which I'd prefer to have, but I suspect the answer is no regardless.

[Bartone]

I have seen many EDM focused tutorials, where they are using Kontakt to add some pianos or strings. And these are very new tutorials, and usually with huge views.

Usually Kontakt is not really marketed in these videos. They just mention it in style “I add this and piano from Kontakt since it sounds good” or something like that and keep going using Serum etc. So Kontakt is not in main focus at all, but it is still present and used.

Sure, if you search more orchestral focused tutorials they use Kontakt more but also other Kontakt competitors.

[Bartone]

How long until we get chat gpt for music?

There are already sooo many YouTube videos of “I asked chat gbt to write a song come and listen” or similar. So it is already happening…

I have to say, I have not watched/listened any of those videos so can’t comment how that music actually sounds like

I did actually listen years ago AI crafted song. And it was pretty damn good I have to say

[DCrown]

@noisebuyuk
I read somewhere that now there are about 100.000 new releases every day, too and it makes me wonder whether I have been listening to 100.000 different songs in my life or ever will?!
Music indeed is just a massproduct,
a song a grain of rice amongst
many grains of rice,
a plugin just...

[SHall1000]

So what do the big companies who need to make money to survive do? They all, in different ways, are providing the shovels and pick axes to the gold-diggers, and they're the ones making the money not the prospectors themselves. Those hopefuls want to believe that success will come to them if only they had a more realistic emulation of an ARP 2600, that their creativity is thwarted because nobody has made a perfect JX-8P yet and they refuse to subscribe to Roland Cloud on a point of principle.

I would be interested to know what proportion of the industries income comes from professionals vs hobbyists (maybe add a third category of aspiring amateurs). Owning the definitive JX-8P might be a “legitimate” pursuit for a hobbyist but bring zero benefit to someone making their living from music. I’m sure NI have a good handle on their market. Would love to know what their perspective is.

[jamcat]

I don’t think NI has a good handle on their market. That’s sort of the point of this conversation.

[Lind0n]

I see you deftly avoided mentioning HISE, which does have the power to out gun Kontakt - and then some

Pretty much every DAW can do what Pro Tools does and more in some cases, but PT is still industry standard. It's not about whether something else is the "better" solution and has the power the outgun any current offering, it's that industry standards shift at a glacial pace.

Your pointing at the wrong guy - I was only countering an argument made that said there was nothing with more power in the list provided that matched Kontakt. I wasn't saying power = dominance per se, just that the point about Kontakt = most powerful wasn't actually correct. I agree with you power is at best only part of the equation.

[fmr]

I see you deftly avoided mentioning HISE, which does have the power to out gun Kontakt - and then some

Pretty much every DAW can do what Pro Tools does and more in some cases, but PT is still industry standard. It's not about whether something else is the "better" solution and has the power the outgun any current offering, it's that industry standards shift at a glacial pace.

Pro Tools has been losing ground every year. They still hold an important part of the market, but they are not as significant as they were in the past. Ate least that's my perception, based on stats I saw, and general comments I read.

I think, comparatively, Kontakt is in a better position than Pro Tools.

[original flipper]

Hi

I made the initial Komplete purchase years ago on the back of having a few of their single products (which helped get a better price).

I have upgraded about 3 times over the years and always skip 1 or 2 versions and wait for the BIG discount deal to come up.

They are a business and it follows that they balance the need to make a profit - who knows, perhaps they are using the brand as a 'cash cow'?

Personally I think they should have kept things like B4, Spektral dalay, Vokator and such updated at a bare minimum, along with minor improvements (GUI scaling) - but, they would have incurred cost's and their product range would have perhaps been to large?

I think there is fierce competition in the market now and prices are generally consumer friendly - so NI are probably moving away from stuff that requires lots of time/cost and maintenance.

[original flipper]

Hi

I made the initial Komplete purchase years ago on the back of having a few of their single products (which helped get a better price).

I have upgraded about 3 times over the years and always skip 1 or 2 versions and wait for the BIG discount deal to come up.

They are a business and it follows that they balance the need to make a profit along with what they can offer in the package - who knows, perhaps they are using the brand as a 'cash cow'?

Personally I think they should have kept things like B4, Spektral dalay, Vokator and such updated at a bare minimum, along with minor improvements (GUI scaling) - but, they would have incurred cost's and their product range would have perhaps been to large?

I think there is fierce competition in the market now and prices are generally consumer friendly - so NI are probably moving away from stuff that requires lots of time/cost and maintenance.

[original flipper]

Hi

I made the initial Komplete purchase years ago on the back of having a few of their single products (which helped get a better price).

I have upgraded about 3 times over the years and always skip 1 or 2 versions and wait for the BIG discount deal to come up.

They are a business and it follows that they balance the need to make a profit along with what they can offer in the package - who knows, perhaps they are using the brand as a 'cash cow'?

Personally I think they should have kept things like B4, Spektral dalay, Vokator and such updated at a bare minimum, along with minor improvements (GUI scaling) - but, they would have incurred cost's and their product range would have perhaps been too large?

I think there is fierce competition in the market now and prices are generally consumer friendly - so NI are probably moving away from stuff that requires lots of time/cost and maintenance.

[martinjuenke]

Hi

I made the initial Komplete purchase years ago on the back of having a few of their single products (which helped get a better price).

I have upgraded about 3 times over the years and always skip 1 or 2 versions and wait for the BIG discount deal to come up.

They are a business and it follows that they balance the need to make a profit along with what they can offer in the package - who knows, perhaps they are using the brand as a 'cash cow'?

Personally I think they should have kept things like B4, Spektral dalay, Vokator and such updated at a bare minimum, along with minor improvements (GUI scaling) - but, they would have incurred cost's and their product range would have perhaps been too large?

I think there is fierce competition in the market now and prices are generally consumer friendly - so NI are probably moving away from stuff that requires lots of time/cost and maintenance.

Ad infinitum ...

[PieBerger]

I see you deftly avoided mentioning HISE, which does have the power to out gun Kontakt - and then some

Pretty much every DAW can do what Pro Tools does and more in some cases, but PT is still industry standard. It's not about whether something else is the "better" solution and has the power the outgun any current offering, it's that industry standards shift at a glacial pace.

Your pointing at the wrong guy - I was only countering an argument made that said there was nothing with more power in the list provided that matched Kontakt. I wasn't saying power = dominance per se, just that the point about Kontakt = most powerful wasn't actually correct. I agree with you power is at best only part of the equation.

My bad, sorry!

[Kongru]

NI released Straylight in 2019 and it's one of their best products in my opinion.