Thumping Guitars

[RustedMonkey]

Does anyone here know how to get that thumping guitar sound found on like “And Justice for All” and “Cowboys from Hell”? Is it compressing the hell out of the guitars? Guitars and Bass? Something in the mastering stage?

[digitaldoom]

I hear you can get that sound with a Marshall JMP1. I can get that sound out of a Rocktron Voodoo Valve.

[RustedMonkey]

I’m not so sure it’s really an amp specific sound as I can hear it used on several different CD’s by several different bands. The sound I’m talking about is like that low thud noise you hear mostly when the guitars are doing low note palm mutes. Its like a woob-woob noise.. hehe.. if that makes any sense.

[Piccazzo]

You`ll have to Play tight , Do some cutting , and Play the same part about 4-8 times , Panning them left 2 Rigt , Leaving 1 or 2 in the center and try to mix and match different sounds on the part`s.
Just copying and pasting the same parts over and over again wont do the trick.

So record 6 takes of a part , Pan 2 left , 2 right and 2 center.Usen preset 1 on left,rigt 1 . Preset 2 on left right 2 , Preset 3 on center 1 , Preset 4 on center 2 , That usually brings a Wall of guitars.

[digitaldoom]

Good tip... imma have to try it ;]

[scuzzphut]

How about lifting some samples off a couple of CDs.
Say, oh - I dunno - ermmmm "and Justice for All" or "Cowboys from Hell"

[dry bones]

Palm muting power chords with the gain on your amp way up will do it.

[tee boy]

Im not familar with the sound you mean, so this post is probably going to be of little help. However, i can say that you should rule out mastering, this will play very part in the sounds of individual parts. Getting a certain guitar sound involves serveral different stages:

- The instrument and recording chain used during tracking

- Any creative processing / editing done to the recording

- The techniques used during the mixing stage

So for starters try to find out the guitars used for the sound your after. Then, look into the recording method - miced amp / cab, DI, DI / miced cab?

When you have an idea of the guitar and amp, then find out about the recording chain and mic set up. Cabs are usually close miced, but there are ofcourse exceptions. What were the mic pres? Any EQ or compression during tracking?

This sound give you an idea of how to create the source of that sound. Next you need to consider mixing techniques. Inparticular, how were the guitar tracks EQed, layered, panned etc. Quite often it is in the layering and panning that generates these brilliant rhythm sounds. Another technique used alot in rock music is to record and layer the same parts using different amp set ups. If you're DI'ing then try sending the direct signal to different preamps and panning them hard left and right.

As for compression, this is something that tends to be avoided in my experience with rock guitar. Clean sounds can be compressed to get that super biting sound, but overdriven guitars dont really benefit to much - then are already compressed to f**k out of the amp!

Not sure if this is any use to you or not, but hope it helps either way.

[RustedMonkey]

Thanks for the replies so far. The band I’m recording is very tight and we do have several guitar tracks panned left, right, and center. They were recorded off a cranked mesa but I still can’t seem to get that sound. I thought it was from doing cuts on the stops and compressing the hell out of it but that doesn’t seem to be working.

Scuzzphut: What do you mean lift some samples?

Thanks everyone.

[tee boy]

I’m not so sure it’s really an amp specific sound as I can hear it used on several different CD’s by several different bands. The sound I’m talking about is like that low thud noise you hear mostly when the guitars are doing low note palm mutes. Its like a woob-woob noise.. hehe.. if that makes any sense.

I think you mean the sound of the guitar and bass mixed. The guitars tend to be very 'middly', and its the bass that provides that low end. In these sounds it not uncommon for the bass to be quite heavily detuned so that it flaps about really deep!

[scuzzphut]

Scuzzphut: What do you mean lift some samples?

you'd be guaranteed to get the sound you want

[Sascha Franck]

I'm not sure, but from my experience it's not without sense that almost all bands known for that serious "thumbing" or "chugga chugga" sound are usually using certain amps. In NuMetal MESA Rectifiers might be the most common choice.
Further, to get those palm mutes REALLY chugging, both the player AND the instrument need to be capable of producing proper mutes.
For instance, personally I can't get a similar sound out of any FloydRose equipped guitar. High bridges (Les Paul style) with the strings running over them in a somewhat more or less drastic angle defenitely help!
In addition, a free floating tremolo takes away quite some portions of the serious attack that is required to make guitars chugging.

Then, of course, speaker enclosures are doing quite some part of the job as well (along with their miking).
Most amp/speaker combos tend to get rather soft in their low ranges at somewhat higher distortion settings - not so the Rectifiers. These tend to stay relatively tight, even at higer drive settings, especially when run through the extended MESA cabs.

And finally, it might be up to "moved air" as well. Just crank those amps until the speakers themselves start to slowly move more than they're supposed to. Then take the volume back a notch. Just make sure you've got VERY good insulation and closed headphones...
Also, in case you just got no choice but your current equipment, try to lower drive srttings a bit and double the guitars instead (of course VERY disciplined players are required for that).
Higher drive settings mudden up the sound by nature of distortion.

[RustedMonkey]

Thanks Sascha. I'll try some of what you described here. This is only my second "real" recording project and much was learned from the first disaster. For instance:

Bass should be felt, not necessarily "heard". Bass players hate when you tell them this.

Guitars should be heard, not necessarily felt. Metal guitarists become enraged when you tell them this.

Turn down the gain! I think I almost saw tears come to their eyes... but after it was recorded they heard what a difference it makes.

As I said, we did run it through a cranked Mesa Rectifier so it may have been mic placement that I missed on to get this sound. I'll still play with some compression settings and see if that brings it out but I doubt it at this point.

"Re-record your guitars" - Guitarists REALLY hate when you tell them that.

[Glooper]

Not that I've tried to replicate this sound... but you might want to try miking small speakers with less distortion than you think you'd need using the panning ideas given above. With smaller speakers the mic is going to pick up more of the frequencies more evenly...
I'd also imagine that the bass guitar plays an important part in it too and provides a lot of the errr..uumph.

Ben

[herr_prof]

scoop your mids and let the bass player play everything you play.... if youd listen to thrash guitar out of the mix it would probaly be a very high and brittle. When you put it in the mix with a nice distro bass... then its gets pretty heavy...

Ive learned this the hard way cause I made a TON of heavy metal patches for my podxt, but now have to remix them for a band setting cuz it completely dominates the low end...