Hallen and heath zed 420 vs Presonus Studiolive 32sc

[Trancer]

I would like your opinion on these two machines.

There is a third Mackie VLZ 4 2404, but had a Mackie and the spurious background noise was unbearable and really problematic.

One of my fears with an analog mixer is audible noise.

Now via a digital table via usb also risks.

Can you give me your opinion on these two and/or three machines?

The best analog or digital option?

What model?

This post is linked to my post on hardware effects.

Thank you in advance for your answers and opinions.

[kritikon]

It's been a few yrs since I had the full hw rig/mixers but general impressions:

A&H have a good name. Used to be decent quality, clean, with enough character in their Eq without being too obvious. I was never aware of any general complaints about noise etc and the ones I used were quiet. (Odd what you say about Mackie - maybe they've changed, but used to be considered quiet from people I knew who used them in the past )
Presonus I really don't have any experience of.

Of these 2 mixers - the Presonus looks nice but it also looks like a lot of menu diving to me. If you're going away from sw, then having deep button menus to access your Eq, routing, aux and whatever doesn't sound like a good hw option. One of the big deals about hw is the hands-on aspect and the intuitive use because everything is at hand - especially for mixers. You aren't going to be mixing quickly with the Presonus. Looks flash but a PITA for practical use (IMO). It obvs has a lot of gizmos hidden under the buttons though.

However - the digital integration with the Presonus looks far better. Looks like it integrates well with Studio One, though that might be an issue if you don't want to get into a different DAW. Steep learning curve there. I heard Studio One is very similar to Cubase, so if you're a Steinberg tyoe then not a big deal. Digital integration with the A&H looks less, but if you're getting away from sw then that's probably not that big a deal.

Just little things like the digital recording might be important for you - only you know that. E.g. the Presonus looks like it can do USB and record direct to SD card, which could be incredibly useful especially if you ever do anything live or want to record on the fly noodlings. I thought most digital mixers now could do that though? Even the small ones record to SD. I didn't see anything in the A&H blurb about SD recording - looked to be pretty basic USB-out.

For me the A&H wins hands down simply because it's a proper mixer where you can see everything and access everything immediately. The Presonus has all the bells and whistles but looks like a cryptic digital nightmare for mixing. You may as well use a DAW as that thing. IMO as always.

Last time I was in a local music shop they had a big flash Yamaha digital mixer. Can't remember the version but it was 3 or 4 thousand. Flagship type model. It looked awesome and lit up like a christmas tree. So I stopped and had a look and got the shop to go through it with me - it even made me think I would go back to hw mixers when I saw it and I had some money floating around. TBH I couldn't figure out a f**king thing about how to use it. It was immediately awful. You could do some basic stuff with the few knobs it had but I thought it was stupid TBH - and I get the same impression with that Presonus. It's lit up to attract. It's not a mixer, it's a computer dressed up a little bit like a mixer. I bet it has motorized faders to impress too. And that sort of gadget impresses me too, but once you actually use them...it becomes quickly apparent it's all for show.

Knobbage. That's what mixers need.

[justin3am]

I recently tried out a bunch of different mixers. I was disappointed to find that there aren't many inline mixers and most of the affordable options are designed for live sound (to be fair, I was looking for a live mixer but I wanted something with per-channel tape returns, in addition to direct outs). I found Mackie VLZ and Allen&Heath Zed series had noticeable crosstalk and some noise, especially when using compression or additive EQ.
I ended up getting a SoundCraft GB2 series mixer but the Allen&Heath GL and Mixwizard series are also good. I'd love to get a Trident, Toft or Speck mixer one day.

I tend to avoid digital mixers and even mixers with built in audio interfaces. That isn't to say they are bad, just not what I'm looking for. I prefer the flexibility of having separate mixer and audio interface but of course, that results in an exponential increase in the number of cables needed.

[kritikon]

Cables are one of the joys of hw. Who doesn't love figuring out which loom goes where at the back of a stack of bloody heavy spaghetti, where all the spiders live...

[Trancer]

Thank you very much for your feedback and reviews.

It's true that the digital side is a little gas factory.

What really bothers me is the noise side of analog, which is really going to be a problem for me, not very pleasant and it will be a real concern for me.

If there was no risk of noise with an analog table, that would be my choice very clearly.

Are there analog mixers that have no noise?

Now, I assume that the many cables used in direct out does not help for extraneous noise?

Regarding the integration in Studio One, it should be perfect, but perhaps less so with Cubase.

Now I don't mind using Studio One Pro 5, especially if the integration is great.

It's true the menu side should be a bit tedious to master, but it also offers a certain flexibility.

It is clear the perfect system does not exist.

Really unfortunate the risk of extraneous noise.

Hallen and Heat enjoys a very good reputation indeed.

[thecontrolcentre]

I used an Allen & Heath ZED14 for a good few years. It's really well spec'd for it's price. Plenty of audio and aux in/outs. I used screened cables, kept the power cables away from the audio one's, and never really noticed any extraneous noise. I didn't ever use the built-in Audio interface. There's a stereo line out iirc. Would still be using it, but needed more inputs and multitrack over USB, so got myself a Yamaha 01v96i (lots of menu and manual diving )

[revvy]

Hallen and Eat are Ok but I prefer Mackoo or Spamaha.

Freesonus are good too, it’s true.

[kritikon]

What really bothers me is the noise side of analog, which is really going to be a problem for me, not very pleasant and it will be a real concern for me.

Are there analog mixers that have no noise?

It is clear the perfect system does not exist.

Really unfortunate the risk of extraneous noise.

No noise? No, there are none. But if you learn your trade, it's perfectly possible to minimize the noise so that it's not a problem. Plenty of famous recordings made on analogue mixers, and not all mega-expensive ones either. If you set up your system/recording properly, a guitar with distortion and compressor on it will have far more noise than any mixer channels you have. TBH lots of people are completely ignorant of things like gain-staging and how you set up hw simply because it's not relevant to them, and DAWs mean noise is essentially not a problem nowadays. At least if you only use sw. At the level of an A&H Zed420, noise is not an issue - it's the user that introduces noise by shoddy set-up and lazy recording. Unless, of course, you have noisy hw instruments (like a Juno 106, which was filthy for noise on the chorus - so you gate it.) One of your other threads was about the JunoX - which apparently can add "real" chorus noise to the sound. Only a f**king idiot would choose to do that.

[Trancer]

Thank you for your reply.

To eliminate the possibility of noise, beyond taking the usual precautions to avoid electrical disturbances, the use of shielded cable and of the correct length to avoid any risk of disturbance as much as possible.

the settings indeed obvious that very important, an apprenticeship.

There would certainly be less risk with digital, although via USB there may also be problems.

Indeed, post about the Juno X, but I don't really understand the link.

[Trancer]

Question regarding the Studiolive 32sc.

it has eight instrument inputs and eight microphone inputs.

In the audio interfaces there is a possible switching.

But for the Studiolive 32sc, can I use the 8 microphone inputs to connect my synthesizers?

No worries if I practice this kind of connections?

[BertKoor]

Ah, ch1-8 are mic only, 9-16 are mic/line combi.

See https://www.presonus.com/products/Studi ... tech-specs

Mic Maximum Input Level (unity gain) = +12 dBu
Line Maximum Input Level = +18 dBu

The 6dB difference is not an issue, but mic input impedance is rather low though. Line input impedance is usually 10kOhm. As a rule of thumb the output impedance of what you connect to it (for line that's 600 Ohm) needs to be less than 1/10th of input impedance. Bummer...

[BertKoor]

About that noise issue:

- learn proper gain staging
- take off those bloody headphones, listen through monitors
- the last volume knob in the chain: TURN IT DOWN !!!!

Noise is always there. Learn how to tame it.

[Trancer]

Thank you very much for your answers.

So I can easily connect my synthesizers to the microphone inputs.

Thanks for the advice.

So, this famous noise does not matter analog or digital if bad settings it will always be present with a variable hearing according to the settings?

Maybe nothing wrong, but if I use a noise gate, could that fix the problem?

[thecontrolcentre]

Noise is always there. Learn how to tame it.

It's true ... even your active monitors and headphones make some noise, especially when they're turned up (too) loud. Hardware synths and effects are the same.

[thecontrolcentre]

if I use a noise gate, could that fix the problem?

If you're using microphones a noise gate can help in noisy environments like gigs.
They help to eliminate feedback. Using one on a synth will cut the noise, but only while the synth is not being played.