Does Massive sound dated?

[_leras]

how the af does a sound “date”? Is it a fashion item, a fad, to become passe once a received perception of novelty fades?

Yes, pretty much exactly.

There are some sounds that came from Massive the were used A LOT for a few years in mainly dubstep then fell out of favor as no longer novel - and these sounds are dated to that period.

but... I think that's just a small section of Massive's sonic landscape.

I think that Massive has it's own tone - and that it's now be used so much and in so many tracks that it's now mainly just 'synth sounds' rather than 'massive sounds'.

[martinjuenke]

'We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is rounded with a sleep. '

I believe its just another Shakespeare Quote.

No, that's from the Eurythmics.

The Tempest, to be exact (or not to be).

The Eurythmics do not sound dated!

[El°HYM]

[ghettosynth]

OK, so you are using the term in the technical sense where i say sure all instruments, definitely synthesizers including SW will have a sound correlated with a time period. When the term is used to mean "it's old and no longer artistically relevant" that i disagree.
Yeah ZDF filters opened up more sonic territory in SW, and i'm a huge fan myself but i would never say that for example Absynth sounds dated in the way i would say a Fairlight is dated.

They are both dated, as instruments, for the same abstract reason, their technology is limited and has experienced significant improvement since. The Fairlight in the bit-depth of samples and the length of samples, and Absynth in the quality of the filters. Whether or not a modern variant would incorporate a more complex sampler may be an issue to some as well, not for me, but, some may view that as a criticism.

Both of these instruments, to me, can sound dated when one expects their technology to stand up to modern standards. However, both are capable of creating sounds that do not sound dated simply by avoiding sounds that highlight their technological limitations.

In fact, for some kinds of sounds I would take the limited bit-depth of the Fairlight with it's marvelous SSM filters over the sound of Absynth's crappy filters any day.

All a matter of degree, all relevant tools for creative expression.

Of course. The question is "Does Massive sound dated?" and I think that, in some contexts, it does. It's filters come from an era where NI was using ad-hoc methods to create character. See the detail in the aforementioned Carbon series of ensembles for examples. I still use OG Massive quite a bit, especially in the context of Maschine expansion packs, but, if I want a proper modern filter implementation, I won't turn to OG Massive because it's filters are not that.

I think that the mistake that some are making here is that they think that an assertion that an instrument sounds dated is equivalent to an assertion that it isn't useful. Also, if there's any doubt, I whole-heartedly wish that NI would update OG Massive/FM8/Absynth to modern standards. I like Massive X, but it is not Massive in terms of many features. Yes, I know that they've killed Absynth, they should change their mind. But, whatever.

Frankly, if they just put two new Reaktor based synths like Super8 in every Komplete release I would keep updating, probably every time. I'm probably not their target market though. I'd love to see FM9 in Reaktor. I'd upgrade at full (upgrade) price for that!

[CrystalWizard]

OK, so you are using the term in the technical sense where i say sure all instruments, definitely synthesizers including SW will have a sound correlated with a time period. When the term is used to mean "it's old and no longer artistically relevant" that i disagree.
Yeah ZDF filters opened up more sonic territory in SW, and i'm a huge fan myself but i would never say that for example Absynth sounds dated in the way i would say a Fairlight is dated.

They are both dated, as instruments, for the same abstract reason, their technology is limited and has experienced significant improvement since. The Fairlight in the bit-depth of samples and the length of samples, and Absynth in the quality of the filters. Whether or not a modern variant would incorporate a more complex sampler may be an issue to some as well, not for me, but, some may view that as a criticism.

Both of these instruments, to me, can sound dated when one expects their technology to stand up to modern standards. However, both are capable of creating sounds that do not sound dated simply by avoiding sounds that highlight their technological limitations.

In fact, for some kinds of sounds I would take the limited bit-depth of the Fairlight with it's marvelous SSM filters over the sound of Absynth's crappy filters any day.

All a matter of degree, all relevant tools for creative expression.

Of course. The question is "Does Massive sound dated?" and I think that, in some contexts, it does. It's filters come from an era where NI was using ad-hoc methods to create character. See the detail in the aforementioned Carbon series of ensembles for examples. I still use OG Massive quite a bit, especially in the context of Massive expansion packs, but, if I want a proper modern filter implementation, I won't turn to OG Massive because it's filters are not that.

I think that the mistake that some are making here is that they think that an assertion that an instrument sounds dated is equivalent to an assertion that it isn't useful. Also, if there's any doubt, I whole-heartedly wish that NI would update OG Massive/FM8/Absynth to modern standards. I like Massive X, but it is not Massive in terms of many features. Yes, I know that they've killed Absynth, they should change their mind. But, whatever.

me: 1000% it's the only way NI will get $$ from me again

Frankly, if they just put two new Reaktor based synths like Super8 in every Komplete release I would keep updating, probably every time. I'm probably not their target market though. I'd love to see FM9 in Reaktor. I'd upgrade at full (upgrade) price for that!

So the technichal definition of dated then? In which case i agree almost completely- I somehow got the impression the OP meant dated in the fashion sense, (i think i hallucinated that part because the synth in question was Massive).

n fact, for some kinds of sounds I would take the limited bit-depth of the Fairlight with it's marvelous SSM filters over the sound of Absynth's crappy filters any day...

I still use OG Massive quite a bit, especially in the context of Massive expansion packs, but, if I want a proper modern filter implementation, I won't turn to OG Massive because it's filters are not that.

Exactly. I meant to post something similar, i use Massive v1 and Absynth all the time but not when i am trying to showcase a patch that relies on the filter for "character." When i want that character my choices are usually Reaktor or HW. I do a Lot of stuff that doesn't rely on the character of a filter and since i've started. So, for me personally, i can get plenty of modern sounds (more modern than any other instrument that i now of) from non ZDF filter synths. For that occasional thing i'm doing i may need the better filters.
It just annoys me personally listening to people (who in my small circles are almost always much younger, by decades, than i am) say that so much as a fashion statement.
Last but not least an upgraded Reaktor? (with FM9 inside)? ok, that would get me back, too.
Unlike many posters i've seen here i would rather NI leave their Reaktor synths inside of Reaktor And make VSTs than just the latter. I don't want to trade the flexibilty of the Reaktor environment for the convenience of a VST. I choose both of couse but if it has to be only one i choose the former.
sorry off topic rant, watching gorgeous snowy afternoon at my window, got medicated well, and early, to enjoy.

[jancivil]

everything in the world is going to wind up ‘technically dated’ unless the one species that invents tech reaches an absolute evolutionary cul de sac.

“Dated” in this kind of discourse tends strongly to regard fashionability. Or should we consult teh google with the likes of “is Moog lame for continuing to use that old ladder filter idea all the time.” After all it’s technically limited, or so I’d guess. Sure, you can hear how technically dated it is, every time! (CF: “Does Massive sound dated”)

Frankly, IME resort to that as an argument, or to the minutiae of “digital” are very special, and the tack seems unresponsive and purely argumentative to me.
At the least it’s always struck me as the interest of people that talk about in preference to using instruments.

(I feel confident my use of Absynth w. its old hat filters doesn’t so much date. A number of its filters are something else entirely. But it has to be a competition with all filters {KVR “What’s the best…?”}, on top of ‘technically’ as a special goalpost.

[ghettosynth]

So the technichal definition of dated then? In which case i agree almost completely- I somehow got the impression the OP meant dated in the fashion sense, (i think i hallucinated that part because the synth in question was Massive).

Yes, because when you're talking about an instrument, that's really how it becomes dated sounding IMO. It's the constraints. We can talk about, e.g., the DX7 factory patches as sounding extremely dated, or the M1 sounding dated. In the former, it's not the instrument, per se, it's the programming. One can get a variety of interesting sounds of a DX7 that will still sound as contemporary as modern FM synths, in most cases. The M1 not so much. It has a fixed sample set and a very simple synthesizer, so the instrument itself is going to sound dated in almost every context. I think that this is true even when it's used in widely popular music, e.g., Tejano, where it's extremely popular.

Of course, we do have many improvements in FM architecture that are not supported the DX7. So, in that sense, it's not a modern instrument and cannot be made into one. Always, this is to a degree. I'll stop here on FM, because this is a thread or six all by itself.

The more restrictive an instrument it is, the more likely it's going to sound dated. The Casio VL-Tone, the Theremin, the Mellotron come to mind.

n fact, for some kinds of sounds I would take the limited bit-depth of the Fairlight with it's marvelous SSM filters over the sound of Absynth's crappy filters any day...

I still use OG Massive quite a bit, especially in the context of Massive expansion packs, but, if I want a proper modern filter implementation, I won't turn to OG Massive because it's filters are not that.

Exactly. I meant to post something similar, i use Massive v1 and Absynth all the time but not when i am trying to showcase a patch that relies on the filter for "character." When i want that character my choices are usually Reaktor or HW. I do a Lot of stuff that doesn't rely on the character of a filter and since i've started. So, for me personally, i can get plenty of modern sounds (more modern than any other instrument that i now of) from non ZDF filter synths. For that occasional thing i'm doing i may need the better filters.

To be clear, I intended a bit of subtlety there that may not have come across. Modern (DSP) filter design, to me, does not necessarily mean filters that sound modern in the sense that it's often used here. Modern filter design is about accurate modeling of analog filters.

It just annoys me personally listening to people (who in my small circles are almost always much younger, by decades, than i am) say that so much as a fashion statement.
Last but not least an upgraded Reaktor? (with FM9 inside)? ok, that would get me back, too.
Unlike many posters i've seen here i would rather NI leave their Reaktor synths inside of Reaktor And make VSTs than just the latter. I don't want to trade the flexibilty of the Reaktor environment for the convenience of a VST. I choose both of couse but if it has to be only one i choose the former.
sorry off topic rant, watching gorgeous snowy afternoon at my window, got medicated well, and early, to enjoy.

My concern with them trying to do both, never mind that I won't think that they'll get back on the serious Reaktor path, is that they, frankly, can't. They suck at it, whereas, they've been very successful in releasing interesting new Reaktor synths. It seems that they take less time to develop and have fewer weird bugs and omissions on release. They have three fantastic platforms, Reaktor, Kontakt, and Maschine, (honorable mention to Guitar Rig) I would stay on board forever if they just focus on making those three things as great as they can be.

[mumpcake]

everything in the world is going to wind up ‘technically dated’ unless the one species that invents tech reaches an absolute evolutionary cul de sac.

“Dated” in this kind of discourse tends strongly to regard fashionability. Or should we consult teh google with the likes of “is Moog lame for continuing to use that old ladder filter idea all the time.” After all it’s technically limited, or so I’d guess. Sure, you can hear how technically dated it is, every time! (CF: “Does Massive sound dated”)

Dated can mean that it's associated with a certain period in time, like gated reverbs and the 80s. Or it can mean something that has fallen out of fashion and hasn't yet been discovered by a new generation to become cool again. For example, in the 80s many people thought Black Sabbath was a relic to be left in the 70s, but in the 90s they were being praised as one of the bands that paved the way for grunge.

[VitaminD]

My personal music tastes range from mid 1600s to the now.

you've made some valid points, and it's true; even some of the synths from the 1600s still sound good today

Yeah but the init Piano preset is quite dated. And, whats worse, is I hear it all over the place. People are still using the init preset on the Piano for the past 300+ years!

[fisherKing]

My personal music tastes range from mid 1600s to the now.

you've made some valid points, and it's true; even some of the synths from the 1600s still sound good today

Yeah but the init Piano preset is quite dated. And, whats worse, is I hear it all over the place. People are still using the init preset on the Piano for the past 300+ years!

JS Bach said: 'i kept waiting for a 'perfect' piano sound. then korg gave us the M1, and i went back to making music'

beethoven laughed at that, tho, and said: "personally i prefer massive for piano sounds, and sylenth for choirs"

[vurt]

sounds are not dated, how they are used is.
you can use those overused sounds in new ways.

[ghettosynth]

sounds are not dated, how they are used is.
you can use those overused sounds in new ways.

Sure, just like leisure suits, you can wear them in new ways.

[El°HYM]

My personal music tastes range from mid 1600s to the now.

you've made some valid points, and it's true; even some of the synths from the 1600s still sound good today

Yeah but the init Piano preset is quite dated. And, whats worse, is I hear it all over the place. People are still using the init preset on the Piano for the past 300+ years!

JS Bach said: 'i kept waiting for a 'perfect' piano sound. then korg gave us the M1, and i went back to making music'

beethoven laughed at that, tho, and said: "personally i prefer massive for piano sounds, and sylenth for choirs"

Mozart joined the party and said: 'Roll over Beethoven and C'mon Rock Me Amadeus'.

[martinjuenke]

sounds are not dated, how they are used is.
you can use those overused sounds in new ways.

Sure, just like leisure suits, you can wear them in new ways.

Is this a picture of vurt ?

[tony10000]

Nope...