Sad state of Native Instruments

[osiris]

I tried to look up who owns Soundwide and all I get is a Franciso Investments & a CEO name for the company. They own a LOT. Just another corporation inside a corporation inside another corporation. And as far as Maschine goes I got one word for you: Kore.

[trusampler]

Be nice if Akai would at the bare minimum give us a decent browser by now. They we're supposed to update the mpc software back when the Akai advanced keyboards we're a thing,but they completely dropped the ball. Dan from Akai mentioned this years ago.

Both of these companies need to update their software more regularly with features their customers actually want.

[AntonioB]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

I use Maschine every day. I have been using it for almost 15 years. Its the most useful tool in my toolbox.

[AntonioB]

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.

Exactly this.

This would be a great move from NI.

But I bet they're continue churning out more loops/sample instruments.

I went from upgrading every version to every second version of Komplete. Went from Ultimate to the standard one, too. There's simply too much I don't need in Ultimate.

k

This would be a great move from NI.

But I bet they're continue churning out more loops/sample instruments.

I went from upgrading every version to every second version of Komplete. Went from Ultimate to the standard one, too. There's simply too much I don't need in Ultimate.

I get Komplete every two or three versions. 2, 4, 5, 7, 10, 13. It makes it well worthwhile when you do get it. This is especially true with the last version being stalled by VST3, GUI, and Apple Silicon development that NI slept on for too long. I wan't Kontakt 7, but not bad enough to get an upgrade. There's good stuff in there, but I've been collecting plug ins and libraries for 20 years now, don't need anything.

I too downgraded from KU down to K standard. Too much new hip-hip beginner producer software and too much soundtrack score software for my interests. But I still use a lot of the traditional Kontakt and Reaktor instruments. Komplete is amazing value for the money if you know when to get it on sale. It also helps to really read the manuals to get the most of the Reaktor instruments as they are a user friendly GUI based front end for some very complex synthesis sounds being done behind the scenes.

[Hammy Havoc]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.

No, and if you're in the betas, you'll understand where the anger comes from. NI's original forum had a volunteer mod manually compiling feature requests, but very little ever happened.

On the new forum, they ban people for being negative or too critical. The Reaktor team posted and pretty much said there's not much in the way of resources to do anything and acknowledges people will be dissatisfied.

Good example of why I'm angry: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ntrol-s88/

"ultimate studio centerpiece" is implying a massive amount of functionality that you would expect to be there, but isn't. Still no splits/zones or layering. Obviously they've never seen the Oberheim MC3000. The MK2 didn't have functioning transport until years after launch and constant mass complaining on the original forum. Likewise, for the "ultimate studio centerpiece", you can't even use aftertouch in Maschine, and it has buttons dedicated for Maschine, it's something it is meant to be paired with.

[dayjob]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.

No, and if you're in the betas, you'll understand where the anger comes from. NI's original forum had a volunteer mod manually compiling feature requests, but very little ever happened.

On the new forum, they ban people for being negative or too critical. The Reaktor team posted and pretty much said there's not much in the way of resources to do anything and acknowledges people will be dissatisfied.

That sounds really disheartening for the programmers. Sheesh. Sad state of affairs indeed.

[Hammy Havoc]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.

No, and if you're in the betas, you'll understand where the anger comes from. NI's original forum had a volunteer mod manually compiling feature requests, but very little ever happened.

On the new forum, they ban people for being negative or too critical. The Reaktor team posted and pretty much said there's not much in the way of resources to do anything and acknowledges people will be dissatisfied.

That sounds really disheartening for the programmers. Sheesh. Sad state of affairs indeed.

This is why although people say this is NI just being NI and they've been this way since the '00s, there's no getting back the talent they've haemorrhaged over the years, and there's also little chance of regaining trust and goodwill.

[BBFG#]

I've downgraded and cost averaged the buys and sells to the three discontinued or looks like they may be discontinued at any time to be effectively free and a couple of their already free.
Kontakt has been library problematic since v6 and Reaktor is basically a cost in time and nothing to show from it for me. And I find their attitude repugnant.
I still watch to see if they might ever pull their head out of their crotch. Instead, it appears they're shoving it even farther up.

[Hammy Havoc]

I've downgraded and cost averaged the buys and sells to the three discontinued or looks like they may be discontinued at any time to be effectively free and a couple of their already free.
Kontakt has been library problematic since v6 and Reaktor is basically a cost in time and nothing to show from it for me. And I find their attitude repugnant.
I still watch to see if they might ever pull their head out of their crotch. Instead, it appears they're shoving it even farther up.

It's frustrating from the perspective that NI has delivered some amazing stuff over the years, with some polish and actually sitting down with power users, it could be perfect.

People write off my negativity as just negativity, no, it was passion to not lose a major investment across their product line, and to have not wasted years providing thoughtful feedback, discussing issues and having learned the products in their entirety. I say this as an OG Maschine MK1 user, and day one buyer of the subsequent models as soon as they were announced.

Whilst heavily entrenched within the ecosystem, the stagnation and failure of NI became my own, spending more time reporting problems than using the thing as there is so much friction. The countless hours I've spent reading the product manuals in their entirety over the years just to confirm that I'm not stupid or missing something, but it just lacks depth, it boggles the mind.

Akai is no better. Both brands rest on their laurels. That isn't to say that the people who work there are bad either, so much talent has come and gone over the years.

Killing the Maschine Jam was another telling thing. That was their answer to the Push, and whilst some novels ideas like the touchstrips, they didn't add velocity sensitive pads, probably not wanting to cannibalize Maschine sales. The sad thing is that everybody who worked on Jam was very passionate about it, and a lot of thought went into the hardware design itself. Actually quite sad, I felt the Jam might have been their best product if they'd done a MK2 with a few changes like a Mikro-sized screen and velocity sensitivity.

[machinesworking]

Good example of why I'm angry: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ntrol-s88/

"ultimate studio centerpiece" is implying a massive amount of functionality that you would expect to be there, but isn't. Still no splits/zones or layering. Obviously they've never seen the Oberheim MC3000. The MK2 didn't have functioning transport until years after launch and constant mass complaining on the original forum. Likewise, for the "ultimate studio centerpiece", you can't even use aftertouch in Maschine, and it has buttons dedicated for Maschine, it's something it is meant to be paired with.

Aftertouch in Maschine is polyphonic aftertouch, in the S88 it would be standard mono aftertouch. It would make sense to use the Maschine controller for such things, as you would be inadvertently triggering all pads aftertouch at the same time with the S88. I've just reintroduced Maschine Studio to my setup and the main thing I thought about using the s88 for is instruments..

Split layers and layering are a thing for sure, but the problem of how to incorporate them into the Komplete Control software beyond the splitting it already does in MIDI mode is that mostly it's those of us with an s88 that would use it, i.e. a tiny minority. I don't think they would ever come out of it smelling like roses to most people because their choice is to assign the knobs to one or the other, or have us end users have to create new patches that combine parameters from a split, in other words their best option would be to create a new preset category specifically for split key setups, which only are super useful on 88 key setups, useful at times on 61 and not that useful or used on 90% of their controllers. I totally agree it should be a thing, but I 100% get why it is not. The nature of capitalism and resource management.

[Hammy Havoc]

Good example of why I'm angry: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ntrol-s88/

"ultimate studio centerpiece" is implying a massive amount of functionality that you would expect to be there, but isn't. Still no splits/zones or layering. Obviously they've never seen the Oberheim MC3000. The MK2 didn't have functioning transport until years after launch and constant mass complaining on the original forum. Likewise, for the "ultimate studio centerpiece", you can't even use aftertouch in Maschine, and it has buttons dedicated for Maschine, it's something it is meant to be paired with.

Aftertouch in Maschine is polyphonic aftertouch, in the S88 it would be standard mono aftertouch. It would make sense to use the Maschine controller for such things, as you would be inadvertently triggering all pads aftertouch at the same time with the S88. I've just reintroduced Maschine Studio to my setup and the main thing I thought about using the s88 for is instruments..

Split layers and layering are a thing for sure, but the problem of how to incorporate them into the Komplete Control software beyond the splitting it already does in MIDI mode is that mostly it's those of us with an s88 that would use it, i.e. a tiny minority. I don't think they would ever come out of it smelling like roses to most people because their choice is to assign the knobs to one or the other, or have us end users have to create new patches that combine parameters from a split, in other words their best option would be to create a new preset category specifically for split key setups, which only are super useful on 88 key setups, useful at times on 61 and not that useful or used on 90% of their controllers. I totally agree it should be a thing, but I 100% get why it is not. The nature of capitalism and resource management.

Aftertouch in Maschine isn't a thing, mate. It may exist in the hardware, but it isn't implemented in Maschine and there are no plans to add support for it: https://community.native-instruments.co ... n-maschine

My point is that the KK isn't the ultimate studio centerpiece. Channel aftertouch capability aside, you can't use aftertouch in Maschine. Period. It's one item in an extremely long list as to why neither KK or Maschine are what they're advertised or implied to be. This is why I say the modern MPCs are a shadow of what they were twenty years ago, they're missing so much expected functionality that comes with the name or territory.

Even recording mutes, perhaps the most musically useful aspect of the MPC workflow many folks may argue for escaping being stuck in a loop quickly, and you can't do it in Maschine, despite people clamouring for it since day one.

With that said, for anyone who says they use it every day and love it, good for you, I'm sincerely happy that you've found something that works for you, but by 2023 standards, it doesn't cut the mustard, and by 2003 standards, it doesn't have basic stuff you'd expect. Equally though, your positive experience doesn't invalidate my negative experience of a tool and workflow. If it were so easy, there wouldn't still be folks buying old MPCs and Oberheim MC 3000, it's more than nostalgia. "How did they do x over 20 years ago?", we lost our grasp on what was available when we shifted over to DAWs being more than just a way of recording and cutting audio.

[dayjob]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.

No, and if you're in the betas, you'll understand where the anger comes from. NI's original forum had a volunteer mod manually compiling feature requests, but very little ever happened.

On the new forum, they ban people for being negative or too critical. The Reaktor team posted and pretty much said there's not much in the way of resources to do anything and acknowledges people will be dissatisfied.

That sounds really disheartening for the programmers. Sheesh. Sad state of affairs indeed.

This is why although people say this is NI just being NI and they've been this way since the '00s, there's no getting back the talent they've haemorrhaged over the years, and there's also little chance of regaining trust and goodwill.

It makes me wonder about people like the crew at Twisted Tools and what they’re up to. I know quite some time back they did Polyplex but beyond that I have no idea. They e not released a Twisted Tools branded instrument or effect in quite a long time. But maybe they were done?

[BBFG#]

I do still own Maschine Studio and a secondary Mikro hardware with just the one software license between the two. But you can probably tell from my previous posts that I forget I even have them. Something that started for me from the company's disinterest in their own products and customers...

[Hammy Havoc]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.

No, and if you're in the betas, you'll understand where the anger comes from. NI's original forum had a volunteer mod manually compiling feature requests, but very little ever happened.

On the new forum, they ban people for being negative or too critical. The Reaktor team posted and pretty much said there's not much in the way of resources to do anything and acknowledges people will be dissatisfied.

That sounds really disheartening for the programmers. Sheesh. Sad state of affairs indeed.

This is why although people say this is NI just being NI and they've been this way since the '00s, there's no getting back the talent they've haemorrhaged over the years, and there's also little chance of regaining trust and goodwill.

It makes me wonder about people like the crew at Twisted Tools and what they’re up to. I know quite some time back they did Polyplex but beyond that I have no idea. They e not released a Twisted Tools branded instrument or effect in quite a long time. But maybe they were done?

Twisted Tools publicly acknowledged via their Intercom on-site chat widget that they're behind schedule on releasing their products for Reaktor Player, but still going. Apparently a new website coming too, and a next generation of products.

[dayjob]

It makes me wonder about people like the crew at Twisted Tools and what they’re up to. I know quite some time back they did Polyplex but beyond that I have no idea. They e not released a Twisted Tools branded instrument or effect in quite a long time. But maybe they were done?

Twisted Tools publicly acknowledged via their Intercom on-site chat widget that they're behind schedule on releasing their products for Reaktor Player, but still going. Apparently a new website coming too, and a next generation of products.

Well that’s really good to hear. They make great devices.