I Have an Uncomfortable Admission to Make

[jamcat]

If I didn’t actually play any instruments, like bones, then maybe I wouldn’t put any value on HW either. I love my bass but if I couldn’t play it, I wouldn’t own it.

If using a mouse or tapping in notes via a one octave controller is the limit of your physical musicianship, no need for a HW synth.

I don't really get the point of what you're saying, and it seems like an unfair assessment anyways. BONES has said elsewhere that he plays synth parts on stage. So clearly he can play well enough for his needs:

If I want to just play, I'll load a song and play whichever part it is I play on stage, with whichever instrument it is I play.

So what difference does it make, anyways, how you get the notes into your songs? I don't think many classical composers played every instrument of the symphonic orchestra. Does that make their music less accomplished if they just drew the notes onto staff paper with a quill, instead of playing all the instruments themselves?

[revvy]

I never said anything about anyone’s music quality, stop being weird. Purely talking about physicality of HW and one’s propensity to interact with it. I need lots of keys, some are happy with one octave of virtual keys represented on a flat glass screen.

I’m talking about playing v non-playing, couldn’t care less how anybody writes their tunes.

I f you don’t get it, that’s fine. I was talking to bones any way, not you.

[donkey tugger]

You need some plectrums my lad.

[BONES]

Sounds like some kind of gynaecological instrument.

Anyway, I can play. When I first started performing live, I had to play two parts and sing at the same time, just to get something approximating a full sound. That took a lot of practise and I was reasonably competent for a while, there. But I only did it because I had to, I never got any extra pleasure from it, and as soon as I had a set-up that allowed me to play less, I played less.

These days I need just one keyboard, with more than two octaves. A 32 key jobbie like KeyStep or Uno Pro Desktop is perfectly adequate. I've become quite adept at changing octaves while I play although Uno Pro's keys are probably just a little too small for my fat fingers. With Erae Touch I can have two or three keyboards at once, each on a different MIDI channel if I want, which is also kinda handy.

Lately we've been discussing doing more on stage (which, strangely, was my idea) so I might end up going back to playing two parts at once, in places, but not while I'm "singing". That requires too much rehearsal.

Without my hardware synths I would have released f**k-all over the last 30 years ... no gigs either.

Why so? Do you find computers too difficult to work with? Mind you, if Dangerous Orange is anything to go by, you haven't really released any music at all. Sorry, but REV is just sound, the kind of thing anyone could pump out an album a week of without breaking a sweat.

[revvy]

You need some plectrums my lad.

And you need a longer….bass!

[revvy]

@bones: fair enough, playing and singing is quite a skill, I’ve never been able to do that.

I still think that if your keyboard playing was more for the enjoyment of proficient playing of a musical instrument (I know you don’t see it like that, that’s fine) after doing your x hundred or x thousand hours of doing it what it takes to master an instrument, you _might_ view HW in general somewhat differently.

When I’m sat at a synth that’s not switched on, or holding a bass that isn’t plugged in, I still enjoy interacting with the keys/strings. I. Just. Do. It literally comforts me, takes me to a less troubled place.

[BONES]

What you're saying is that if I viewed a skill I see as worthless as not being worthless, I'd have a different attitude towards it, which is surely self-evident? The way you describe holding your bass is exactly how I feel holding my ZuneHD. Knowing that it contains all my favourite music, plus the way it feels in my hand, is extraordinarily comforting. OTOH, musical instruments are mostly just in my damned way or causing me grief in other ways.

[revvy]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Bingo.

I do it to contextualise your opinion on instruments for those that would ever try and converse with you about them. It simply isn’t worth a musician engaging with you about instruments.

Guess I also do it to suggest you have an inbuilt bias against instruments, viewing their usage in an actively negative way.

As you of course know, HW really makes v little sense for you and EBM, SW with a smallish controller is more than good enough and sounds great.

[jamcat]

I love a nice figured maple top on a guitar. But when it comes to playing, in the end any musical instrument is just a tool I use to try to get the sounds I want into a multitrack. And I will manipulate them any way I have to, to make the song do what I want it to.

Playing an instrument is great. I wish I was better at playing more of them. But the bands I love most could barely even play their instruments, and that never got in their way.

[BONES]

It simply isn’t worth a musician engaging with you about instruments.

That is simply confirmation of a lack of objectivity on your/their part. Anyone with functional ears can discuss how an instrument sounds and how easy or hard it is to get good sounds from.

Guess I also do it to suggest you have an inbuilt bias against instruments, viewing their usage in an actively negative way.

No, it's you who has the bias. A synth is no more or less important to me than any other tool. I actually quite like a lot of the tools I use to fix my car because they make it easier to get the job done to the highest standard. Similarly, I like instruments that make creating great sounding music, also to the highest standard, easier. But, in both cases, they need to be good quality tools to facilitate that.

As you of course know, HW really makes v little sense for you and EBM, SW with a smallish controller is more than good enough and sounds great.

It shouldn't matter to anyone. Actually, if that's your reasoning, then it actually supports software because you can get a hell of a lot more performance playing Equator with a Seaboard than anyone can get from any hardware synth. So your position is basically built on bias, with little or no connection to objective reality. Which is exactly why it annoys me.

[revvy]

So your position is basically built on bias

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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[BONES]

Great comeback. You accuse me of bias because I'm not a musician and, therefore, I must hate musical instruments, but this is the best you can manage when I put it back on you? Pathetic.

[jamcat]

I'm still trying to figure out why BONES isn't a musician, and what magical threshold a person has to reach to be one.

I mean, BONES has instruments and he can play them. He sings, or something approximating it. He writes songs, records them, and releases them on albums. Also, I assume he could find A on a keyboard and maybe even a guitar, which is apparently better than James Hetfield can do, by his own admission.

Someone help me here.

[metamorphosis]

I have an uncomfortable admission to make:
I have spent way too much time on KVR over the years.
Can't take it back, ready for the pitch forks and tar.
Please be gentle

[Double Tap]

First hardware. Next it will be a new Mac.