erae touch, linnstrument, (rise 2?) etc

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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I'm looking into MPE(+) controllers again, trying to figure out what might suit best, which is tricky when you can't necessarily get to actually touch and interact with some of the options, let alone compare them in the same room.

I'm looking for one with physical pitch glide, so for now -- as cool as it looks -- the osmose is out of the running (and I do think the glide-between-notes-via-proportional-pressure thing is a neat idea, but right now I'm looking for an actual "slide finger along x axis to glide" controller).

My initial question was going to be, for those of you who have tried playing both the linnstrument and the erae touch, what were the perceived pros and cons of each. But I may as well throw the rise 2 into the list as well, although I am a little wary about roli at the moment, just based on past history.

One thing I should say is that some years ago, I briefly tried a haken continuum, and that still stands in my mind as the top experience, it's just unfortunately not a financially viable choice at the moment.

So I'm hoping for some feedback from any of you that *have* actually worked with one (or hopefully more, for comparison) of the above units.

For myself, the intent is to use it as a melodic instrument. So I'm looking for something with some expressive depth and musical "feel" along those lines. Use as a drum pad or CC layout are less important.

Any thoughts? Some specific points:

+ How are they in terms of either Y or Z (pressure) control while gliding pitch? With the continuum, there was a lot of room for Y motion. Also, something about the continuum surface (maybe the cloth on the neoprene?) made it so one could "dig in" and still slide. None of these options (other than the erae configured with lots of Y space per row) really gives much room for Y control while pitch gliding. But I'm wondering in each case how controllable pressure is while moving. And in the case of the linnstrument, perhaps rolling your finger a small amount vertically while sliding horizontally is an option?

Also, can one dig in while using the Rise's "slide bars"? I seem to recall kind of "sticking" to the original Rise surface a bit when digging in, but I think that was with Y motion, I don't recall trying this on the slide bars.

+ How is the Linnstrument vs the Erae in terms of pressure/Z? Do either have much "travel"? Or is it more like just pushing hard on a fairly non-giving surface?

+ I played a roli lightblock some years back. I seem to recall that the feel of that was somewhat textured, and I think it did have some notable give. How are the linnstrument and erae in relation to that? I remember thinking it was "okay", although not with the depth of control that a continuum has.

+ The erae does seem to be pretty well thought out in term of also being able to be a controller or drum pad, and highly configurable, but that is all secondary to me, I'm looking for a fine, controllable, good-feeling musical instrument.

+ Just in general, in terms of a melodic expressive instrument, do any stand above (or below) the pack in your experience?

Thanks for your thoughts. Looking forward to the day when local music stores have most/all of the options in stock so we can physically actually try them, imagine that.

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I have no experience wit Linnstrument but I own or have owned Roli Seaboards, Lightpads and an Erae Touch. I'd take the Erae over the Roli stuff every time. I find it works in a much more natural way than the Rolis, although that could just be because I had the Rolis first, so had more trouble adapting. But I think it's just better.

There are two Roli Lightpad Blocks. The original feels a lot closer to the Erae than the newer Lightpad M or Lightpad Studio, in that its surface has a lot less give. You'd think that might make it less responsive or harder to play but it's actually the opposite.

You mentioned limited Y travel on the Erae but this is where custom set-ups come into their own. You can make a keyboard that's as deep as the device, giving you more Y travel than any other controller I can think of. For me, I think customisation has been an important part of why I like it so much. You can make the keys whatever size works best for you and add in other controls where it best suits you. e.g. You can have a full width keyboard with an X-Y pad above it or a shorter keyboard with two sliders for pitch-bend and Mod wheel or whatever else you want to do at one end or the other.
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Imho the Linnstrument is the better grid controller (at least with the current firmware of the Erae Touch it reacts less even and predictable to touch for me *). But with Erae Touch you can create any touch sensitive controllers that the editor software allows to construct.
So imho - if you want the Erae Touch mainly to work like a Linnstrument, get a Linnstrument, which does one thing (great). (E.g. Linnstrument is built from eight physically separated straps, so you can vertically modulate each one individually but not use the full vertical height as one continuous dimension like Erae Touch or Continuum - each one is what it is.)

But best look for an exhibition in your area and try them all out!

* Edit: Apparently my firmware and/or settings for the Erae Touch were not up to date. With firmware 1.3.0 and factory settings the issues are gone now and imho there is no clear winner anymore now when it comes to the grid controller use case - see below
Last edited by NothanUmber on Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Interesting, can you (notanumber) elaborate on the unpredictability of touch sensing as you experience it? Is it in terms of note recognition? Or accuracy of sliding? Pressure differences? Can you play accurately with a light touch?

I'm also curious how one would describe the difference in feel (linnstrument vs erae) regarding controlling pressure. Bones' made an interesting comment about the harder surface of the erae (compared to roli's sponginess) being more controllable, which is counter to what I would intuitively think, albeit not having played either one. So that did further pique my curiosity.

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I have a Linnstrument and the ERAE Touch. For melody, get the Linnstrument. It's just better for that.

ERAE Touch is good if you want to hold notes and do various manipulations per note. It's also good for percussion.

I'm happy to have both.

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@glittle, thetechnobear has described the "unpredictable" part in more detail in this posting: https://community.polyexpression.com/t/ ... 1-3/1380/3
Inconsistency means that some places play (slightly) louder than others when using the same force. But to be fair, this aspect has much improved in the latest firmware. And they are actively working on the firmware still.

Erae Touch is certainly a very capable multi purpose Lemur-like (but more responsive) MIDI control panel that can fit many use cases with customizable presets which can be prepared and then switched on the fly. If you want/need something like this anyways then it might be an idea to get one and just see whether it also works as grid controller for you - or whether you additionally want a dedicated grid controller (like Linnstrument or Soundplane) for that purpose.

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P.S.: Just did a factory reset of all the presets. Cannot reproduce the unpredictable behavior atm. (My feeling is that they might have configured a higher minimal threshold in the presets now, which could explain that there are no "bounce back retrigger effects" now anymore - so you have to play harder but the result is more predictable? Will have to experiment with that more tomorrow (and see whether the effect returns when reducing the threshold again).
P.P.S.: There is a sensitivity slider with the text "Lowering minimum threshold will increase sensitivity. Careful, you could encounter ghost notes". The default is 0-100, it can be changed to -20-200 though (With the -20 setting being closer to what I had in memory as old default). This would be an explanation. But - cannot get the ghost notes even with the lowest setting now...

So take what I wrote above with some grain of salt - it could already be solved (or at least improved) by now. Will further investigate tomorrow.

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glittle wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:31 am + How is the Linnstrument vs the Erae in terms of pressure/Z? Do either have much "travel"? Or is it more like just pushing hard on a fairly non-giving surface?

+ I played a roli lightblock some years back. I seem to recall that the feel of that was somewhat textured, and I think it did have some notable give. How are the linnstrument and erae in relation to that? I remember thinking it was "okay", although not with the depth of control that a continuum has.

+ The erae does seem to be pretty well thought out in term of also being able to be a controller or drum pad, and highly configurable, but that is all secondary to me, I'm looking for a fine, controllable, good-feeling musical instrument.

+ Just in general, in terms of a melodic expressive instrument, do any stand above (or below) the pack in your experience?
The Erae has more travel, which makes it less controllable. When I got my LinnStrument I thought it has too little, but now since playing 3 three different surfaces (3rd is a Sensel), I must say, the harder it is, the better… All three are not too different either, its not like a Continuum, which has a travel almost like a keyboard. Keyboards are different, because of a very different resistance. Its almost nothing on the travel path and then hit the ground hard, which gives the physical feedback you need. A continuum has almost no ground and the resistance is proportional to the travel.
Linn has a harder surface and is better to play…
But the Erae has another disadvantage. The resolution is not as high as with the LinnStrument. To play fluidly, the size of the grid of the LinnStrument is perfect. To achieve that, you need a 2*2 grid on the Erae. Crucial is how well the surface can distinguish neighboring pads. Playing a 4th or a semitone you need to be far away enough from each other. That is tricky with the 2*2 grid on the Erae. It works, but you get easily a bend instead of a trigger of a new note.
For what is important to you, the LinnStrument is hands down better to play. But the customizability of the Erae is its big advantage. You can switch layouts in an instance, play it with sticks and its well built. I love both for what they are…
If you look at all those videos with the Erae, the all use bigger grid sizes. But you will never see someone to play this on an Erae Touch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5E57qR ... A&index=53
Or this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0ul0G ... A&index=47

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Did a more thourough A/B comparison between Erae Touch and Linnstrument today. The good news - the problems I had are gone now with the latest firmware and factory settings!
Think both are very viable options now - not identical but more a matter of taste perhaps.
To avoid crossposting here the details.

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Tj Shredder wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:20 amBut you will never see someone to play this on an Erae Touch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5E57qR ... A&index=53
Or this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0ul0G ... A&index=47
Of course you would, they'd just use a keyboard layout, not that stupid grid which, BTW, at no time has the OP expressed a preference for. That's the beauty of Erae - you use the control layout that suits you and what you're playing. i.e. You adapt it to you, you don't have to adapt to it. Just watch how hard that second guy has to concentrate to make sure he hits the right tiny square on the tiny grid. That's what annoys me about the Lightpads, you have to concentrate so hard to make sure you hit the right pad, it would be boring as batshit for an audience. I also struggle to remember where the notes are on a grid layout, even after a couple of years with them, which makes the Lightpad an order of magnitude harder for me to play.
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Yeah, I'm mainly a keyboard player, but currently open to the keyboard layout options, so I didn't specify. I do understand the grid layout concept in an intellectual way ("like the first four strings on a guitar, more than once instance of any given note, can go up in pitch by going left->right or front->back" etc), but it will definitely take some practice to truly internalize that. But it also may be the case that sticking with a "piano layout" may cause one to miss out on certain advantages that are not inherent in other layouts. And unless the unit has piano-sized dimensions (like I assume the roli and continuum), then you can't take full advantage of muscle memory.

In any case, it's a really interesting thing to think about, once you start really trying to wrap your mind around all the various tradeoffs, strengths, weaknesses. And since I generally play to record rather than perform, Bones' points about what makes a good high-energy performance interface and what is good for the *audience* are something I would not have thought of, and well-taken.

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To anybody who has internalized the twelve different tonality shapes of a piano, I would recommend a Seaboard or Osmose. The main advantage of a grid layout is, there is only one shape. That is smart vs. stupid to keep Bones words… A Roli Block is way too small to be able to judge…
If you take a piano layout on the Erae, the size is way off to what a pianist is used to. You can‘t benefit from your muscle memory. Its easier to learn playing on a grid… The range you can cover with a piano layout is minuscule compared to an almost 8 octaves I get with a 2*2 grid layout…
But you can design your own ideas on the Erae. Adapt it to whatever fits your needs. I can easily combine keys and faders, launchpads or 2D controls… That is where it shines. Playing on a 2*2 grid is more difficult than playing the LinnStrument, it needs some extra practice, but its okayish and I can benefit from my muscle memory which is coming from the LinnStrument…

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Yeah but I have 8 blocks so I can make some fairly huge layouts, as they are smart enough to recognise how they are interconnected and provide you with a single, continuous interface. The technology itself is kinda cool.

One thing I would like to do, though, is pick up a single Block and rip out a solo on stage, via Bluetooth. even if I have to concentrate really hard while I'm doing it, I think it would be entertaining enough in its own right.
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[quote="Tj
But you can design your own ideas on the Erae. Adapt it to whatever fits your needs. I can easily combine keys and faders, launchpads or 2D controls… That is where it shines. Playing on a 2*2 grid is more difficult than playing the LinnStrument, it needs some extra practice, but its okayish and I can benefit from my muscle memory which is coming from the LinnStrument…
[/quote]
I'm looking right now for a midi controller to use in conjunction with my linnstrument.
Faders, pads/buttons and.... Joystick believe it or not.
Synapse Audio Dune 3 I'm in love

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^^^
If on PC Get a multi-touch monitor and then get:
DawSound
https://markderricos.wixsite.com/dawsound
OR
Xotopad
http://feelyoursound.com/xotopad/

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