I guess it may be good (at least to begin with) for us to narrow down the presets that use the 4 CSR algorithms. Some of the names seem related to some factory presets but I have no idea if they’re the same or just close (for instance Gold Plate).
IK CSR - has anyone copied over the original Lexicon PCM90/91 presets?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 26 posts since 20 May, 2017
- KVRAF
- 5386 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
The PCM90 is the same unit as the PCM91, but without AES/EBU and XLR combo connectors, and only the first 5 banks (250 presets.) The additional 4 banks (200 presets) were available to the PCM90 with an expansion card.
So it should be possible to use a PCM90 and MIDI Quest to dump the factory presets.
So it should be possible to use a PCM90 and MIDI Quest to dump the factory presets.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 11477 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
Wouldn't you want to know if they even sound the same first? If the PCM90 and CSR don't sound the same, then dumping the presets and trying to port them to CSR won't mean much.
If a quick and dirty comparison could be done, I'd certainly be interested in hearing the results. But I doubt it would have me switching back to CSR. Every time I load it up thinking "it's gotta be better than I remember", I do some comparisons and end up determining I like my other go-to reverbs way more.
If a quick and dirty comparison could be done, I'd certainly be interested in hearing the results. But I doubt it would have me switching back to CSR. Every time I load it up thinking "it's gotta be better than I remember", I do some comparisons and end up determining I like my other go-to reverbs way more.
- KVRAF
- 5386 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Well, they're not going to sound exactly the same. That's for sure. Not just because the 20-bit AD/DA converters (18-bit for the PCM90) aren't modeled, but also because the modulation is similar, but not exactly the same. Martin has said this is for copyright reasons, but maybe it was more because he couldn't crack Lexicon's pseudo "randomness" at the time. Apparently he has now, with the help of machine learning, so you have to ask why copyright suddenly isn't a concern any longer...
But that aside, if CSR is close enough, then it would be worth it to be able to get close to those classic Lexicon patches. It's just a question of how close is close enough, and everyone's threshold for that is going to be different. At the very least, you'd think the PCM9x factory presets would be an improvement on CSR's, and would give it some new life.
But that aside, if CSR is close enough, then it would be worth it to be able to get close to those classic Lexicon patches. It's just a question of how close is close enough, and everyone's threshold for that is going to be different. At the very least, you'd think the PCM9x factory presets would be an improvement on CSR's, and would give it some new life.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 26 posts since 20 May, 2017
not too much to report, but I asked around some Lexicon based groups without much luck.
I also noticed that Reverberate 3 comes with basically every PCM91 preset in its fusion IR format. I tend to prefer algorithmic reverbs to IR based ones (even though these sound good, I still feel like you approach things differently when you have an authentic control layout - a lot of thought goes into the design and which parameters are available to the user).
I also bought LX480, which has a couple of halls. None of which really helps at approximating the PCM91 presets with CSR but I guess there are a few reference points on how the PCM91 presets sound (without needing to buy a unit).
I also noticed that Reverberate 3 comes with basically every PCM91 preset in its fusion IR format. I tend to prefer algorithmic reverbs to IR based ones (even though these sound good, I still feel like you approach things differently when you have an authentic control layout - a lot of thought goes into the design and which parameters are available to the user).
I also bought LX480, which has a couple of halls. None of which really helps at approximating the PCM91 presets with CSR but I guess there are a few reference points on how the PCM91 presets sound (without needing to buy a unit).
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 26 posts since 20 May, 2017
not too different, but also some slightly different behaviours here. no idea if orchestral hall is based off deep blue.
https://youtu.be/MlBqnTJHX1c
just going through some other presets. lots of them seem based off them, in that there is an inherent similarity but slightly tweaked. It also seems some of the included IK presets go by different names, for instance "Looong Plate" in CSR sounds a LOT like the "Just Plate" from the HW.
https://youtu.be/MlBqnTJHX1c
just going through some other presets. lots of them seem based off them, in that there is an inherent similarity but slightly tweaked. It also seems some of the included IK presets go by different names, for instance "Looong Plate" in CSR sounds a LOT like the "Just Plate" from the HW.
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simon.a.billington simon.a.billington https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=341278
- KVRAF
- 2365 posts since 12 Nov, 2014
I did not realise the Classik Hall was a take on a Lexicon unit. Any word on the other reverbs?? Emulations or original designs??
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 26 posts since 20 May, 2017
I believe they are all based on the Lexicon PCM90/91 algorithms. Not all algorithms are included, and I’m not sure every parameter is always included though.
But I believe the biggest difference currently is the presets.
But I believe the biggest difference currently is the presets.
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simon.a.billington simon.a.billington https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=341278
- KVRAF
- 2365 posts since 12 Nov, 2014
Thanks dude.machinated wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:49 am I believe they are all based on the Lexicon PCM90/91 algorithms. Not all algorithms are included, and I’m not sure every parameter is always included though.
But I believe the biggest difference currently is the presets.
- KVRAF
- 23287 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
I almost forgot about this thread with the new exciting V³ V3 update.
But the other night I checked at work if it really was a PCM91 in our storage-room and sure enough it is:
(I was wrong about there being two lexicons in the rack - the colleague of mine who owns this one also has an 81 at home)
So please bear with me, I'll get to it (a comparison that is - not sure if and how many presets I'll find both the time and motivation to bring over).
But the other night I checked at work if it really was a PCM91 in our storage-room and sure enough it is:
(I was wrong about there being two lexicons in the rack - the colleague of mine who owns this one also has an 81 at home)
So please bear with me, I'll get to it (a comparison that is - not sure if and how many presets I'll find both the time and motivation to bring over).
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.
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- KVRAF
- 4796 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
That seems exciting. I am guessing you can get to the really same ballpark with CSR but please let us know. Exciting thread.jens wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:38 am I almost forgot about this thread with the new exciting V³ V3 update.
But the other night I checked at work if it really was a PCM91 in our storage-room and sure enough it is:
(I was wrong about there being two lexicons in the rack - the colleague of mine who owns this one also has an 81 at home)
So please bear with me, I'll get to it (a comparison that is - not sure if and how many presets I'll find both the time and motivation to bring over).
- KVRAF
- 23287 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Yes, I basically just need to find the time/energy - I am really curious myself as to how close CSR is to it...
(btw., just for the record as it may seem like a weird angle: the rack was safely resting on my leg)
(btw., just for the record as it may seem like a weird angle: the rack was safely resting on my leg)
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.
- KVRAF
- 23287 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Yes, and I won't remove it (at least not if not absolutwly neccessary, which I don't assune will be the case) - not sure it's original though...
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.
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- KVRAF
- 8440 posts since 5 Aug, 2009
this is really impressive! i struggle to re-create the CSR Hall Presets:machinated wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:42 pm not too different, but also some slightly different behaviours here. no idea if orchestral hall is based off deep blue.
https://youtu.be/MlBqnTJHX1c
just going through some other presets. lots of them seem based off them, in that there is an inherent similarity but slightly tweaked. It also seems some of the included IK presets go by different names, for instance "Looong Plate" in CSR sounds a LOT like the "Just Plate" from the HW.
Large Hall & Large Organ Church with the Relab 480 Reverb.
were you succesful? i want to replace the IKM Plugin. this would be awesome!
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