Kilohearts Updates the Entire Kilohearts Ecosystem to v2 - Including Phase Plant

[DCrown]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I think my system is even better, had to check 8 cores intel, 2.7 ghz with boost up to ghz, 16 gb ram, 1tb
Rme Interface and Reaper daw version 3.7x

[zzz00m]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I think my system is even better, had to check 8 cores intel, 2.7 ghz

2.7 GHz is fairly weak. Any chance that is a laptop CPU?

[EnGee]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I mean the computer you make music with not the one you write your posts on KVR with!

@DCrown:
I'm not a fanboy even if I like PhasePlant a lot. I like also other synths the same (Massive X, Dune 3, Icarus and Modwave). The system info and how you setup your DAW is important to know, because there is always a reason why it doesn't run well.

New synths usually consumes more CPU than older ones, but not all. Years ago (circa 2007) I barely could run Massive (the original). It was a very heavy synth that time, now I can run without counting how many instances! (and I don't have the best CPU! It is just a mid range). I choose my setup 128 buffer because 64 is too much squeezing. I don't have a problem with GUI (3070 RTX) but also with my M1 mini Mac. But I need to provide info so the others can understand and compare to their systems. Yes, all systems are different, but there is a reason for the performance. It is not random!

[zzz00m]

But I need to provide info so the others can understand and compare to their systems. Yes, all systems are different, but there is a reason for the performance. It is not random!

Let logic prevail!

[martiu]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I mean the computer you make music with not the one you write your posts on KVR with!

i use it for cooking, i just have to hit a note on Pigments and after couple of seconds it is ready for some eggs with bacon

[EnGee]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I mean the computer you make music with not the one you write your posts on KVR with!

i use it for cooking, i just have to hit a note on Pigments and after couple of seconds it is ready for some eggs with bacon

You can't afford buying a new system? or you just like misery?

[martiu]

i am just joking, my lap top is still a potato though, but not that much, it runs cpu hogs just fine

[EnGee]

[DCrown]

It's useless to just saying heavy or light cpu usage without providing numbers and details of the system used!

2 cores amd, 1.5ghz each, 2 gb ram, 256 mb video

I think my system is even better, had to check 8 cores intel, 2.7 ghz

2.7 GHz is fairly weak. Any chance that is a laptop CPU?

My pc is not weak, it runs all the plugins I ever wanted without issues, my daw has not crashed even one time the last 7 years, before I had pro tools with some crashes and a different pc, my biggest project is with about 90 tracks and tons of plugins, average tracks / project about 50- 60
I am not a prof, I prefer live performances over studio recordings and mixing, but Covid has changed a lot, sold almost all my hardware.

[EnGee]

I thought to check the performance in my M1 mini and found interesting results!

For the same setup (I use Ableton Live Suite and Tascam US 4x4 HR with buffer 128), I loaded PhasePlant (the AU version) and played the same presets ("Blue Messiah Pad" and "Classic House Bass"). A three chord notes with pad hit the CPU about 28% and continues bass fingering is about 8%.

So, PhasePlant performs better in my M1 mini than the Ryzen PC. I don't know, usually my Ryzen PC performs a little bit better, but in this case no!

I also noticed that S1 in Windows uses less CPU than Ableton Live but that's depending on the CPU reading on both DAWs. The latency is much better in Mac, but that's related to Tascam ASIO driver vs Core Audio.

[SamDi]

And we are talking about a midclass CPU here. Clearly patches can get complex. But an average from 10 to 20% ?

That's on average for the factory presets. Why? What's strange?! How much these two presets hit your cpu?

Below are two screenshots from my Windows 11/ Ryzen 5800X PC (My Mini Mac is about similar, more or less).

Here is a chord of three notes for a Pad:
PhasePlant - Blue Messiah Pad.jpg


and here is single note repeated fast for a bass:
PhasePlant - Classic House Bass.jpg

I have tested it, and I have for your first example in Ableton with 3 voices a peak around 70% and after some fraction of a second it goes to 42-44%, for the second example with 16th notes it‘s between 8-9%. My CPU is i7-10700. So the results are, let‘s say, similar.

I had a small look on the other patches and I have rather said, that they are between 5 and 10% for one note, but that‘s for sure not objective, because I just looked at lead and bass sounds, not complex pads or whatever.

So yes - your statements are true: the patches are partly real CPU hogs.

What I am wondering about: Phase Plant itself isn‘t very CPU consuming. It‘s very efficient implemented and because I mostly make patches myself I didn‘t realize that patches are that complex.

Take your first example: the Blue Messiah Pad uses like 38(!) instances of oscillators, if I counted correctly. I am not sure, if I would regard that a good sound design in terms of "what do you do to achieve a certain sound" and I assume one could reach similar results with much less waste of CPU time.
What is also pretty CPU consuming for many patches is the fact that they use some polyphonic effects, but this is clear that you will need much CPU power, if you want to use this.

BTW, I have my problems with all the PP presets (including the expansions, because I have a subbscription). Normally I make most presets myself, but curretnly I experiment to achieve things with preset sounds. Unfortunately all the PP sounds seem to fit very bad to my exisitng project, but I cannot really express, why this is the case. It's like some sheen and shimmer is missing.

To be honest, also after this discussion, I have the impression that most presest are like "lets stack enough oscillators and effects together and it will sound good somehow", instead of using the possibilites smartly and that the sound designers exactly know what they do.

Fazit: PP - CPU light; PP stock presets - CPU heavy

[zzz00m]

My pc is not weak, it runs all the plugins I ever wanted without issues, my daw has not crashed even one time the last 7 years

Glad to hear it's working for you!

But I suspect that most developers working on the latest generation software are not testing new code for performance on 7 year old computers. I got about 6 years out of my last PC before it became too much of a struggle for me, but YMMV.

[DCrown]

And we are talking about a midclass CPU here. Clearly patches can get complex. But an average from 10 to 20% ?

That's on average for the factory presets. Why? What's strange?! How much these two presets hit your cpu?

Below are two screenshots from my Windows 11/ Ryzen 5800X PC (My Mini Mac is about similar, more or less).

Here is a chord of three notes for a Pad:
PhasePlant - Blue Messiah Pad.jpg


and here is single note repeated fast for a bass:
PhasePlant - Classic House Bass.jpg

I have tested it, and I have for your first example in Ableton with 3 voices a peak around 70% and after some fraction of a second it goes to 42-44%, for the second example with 16th notes it‘s between 8-9%. My CPU is i7-10700. So the results are, let‘s say, similar.

I had a small look on the other patches and I have rather said, that they are between 5 and 10% for one note, but that‘s for sure not objective, because I just looked at lead and bass sounds, not complex pads or whatever.

So yes - your statements are true: the patches are partly real CPU hogs.

What I am wondering about: Phase Plant itself isn‘t very CPU consuming. It‘s very efficient implemented and because I mostly make patches myself I didn‘t realize that patches are that complex.

Take your first example: the Blue Messiah Pad uses like 38(!) instances of oscillators, if I counted correctly. I am not sure, if I would regard that a good sound design in terms of "what do you do to achieve a certain sound" and I assume one could reach similar results with much less waste of CPU time.
What is also pretty CPU consuming for many patches is the fact that they use some polyphonic effects, but this is clear that you will need much CPU power, if you want to use this.

BTW, I have my problems with all the PP presets (including the expansions, because I have a subbscription). Normally I make most presets myself, but curretnly I experiment to achieve things with preset sounds. Unfortunately all the PP sounds seem to fit very bad to my exisitng project, but I cannot really express, why this is the case. It's like some sheen and shimmer is missing.

To be honest, also after this discussion, I have the impression that most presest are like "lets stack enough oscillators and effects together and it will sound good somehow", instead of using the possibilites smartly and that the sound designers exactly know what they do.

Fazit: PP - CPU light; PP stock presets - CPU heavy

Do you think the main focus or strength of pp is sound design and creating own presets? Was it promoted that way by the dev when it was released? I am just curious and think pp is a pretty good synth. Do most people use pp for sound design?
The first thing I noticed when I demoed pp in addition to high cpu of quite a lot of presets was something else, I mean there are easy ways to replace it, but when I compare it to Avenger (the synth I use the most at the moment) it's pretty obvious.
I didn't like the quality of reverb, but that's not a big downside and it's a matter of personal taste, you can add any reverb you want, of course, otherwise I see the great potential of pp as a sound design tool.

[EnGee]

Take your first example: the Blue Messiah Pad uses like 38(!) instances of oscillators, if I counted correctly. I am not sure, if I would regard that a good sound design in terms of "what do you do to achieve a certain sound" and I assume one could reach similar results with much less waste of CPU time.
What is also pretty CPU consuming for many patches is the fact that they use some polyphonic effects, but this is clear that you will need much CPU power, if you want to use this.

Yes! It is a big preset! There are some like this one especially in the Pad and similar categories. Of course it is better to make our own presets. Personally, I don't use that much oscillators and effects! Two oscillators with some unison and little bit of effects. Anyway, I believe some presets are for demonstrating more than to be used.

I still like Massive X presets more! (Yes, I have a strange taste maybe!), but there is no exact rule which synth I should use or which preset. The only rule is to use what fits better and support the overall song or track better. Sometimes, not a favourite preset (even my own) and it sits the best, so just browsing presets and listen to them only by themselves, is not useful for me as I need to hear them in context with the other elements of the song. So, when I browse preset, I try to imagine how this preset sound with other sounds (and usually it is a start of a new track if it sounds so good in my head ).

Overall, PhasePlant is a great synth. I like how it is developed and the company behind it

[Per Salbark]

We are aware that our factory presets, and many of the paid content banks include CPU hungry presets. We are working to create more efficient factory presets.
Blue Messiah Pad specifically has been getting negative feedback in this regards ever since we released it. But it's a really cool sound so we let it stick around.

Like some of you have noted, Phase Plant is comparable to the main competitors in terms of performance. But only if you make a patch that is similar to what fixed architecture synths do. If you start going beyond that with unison, multiple generators, many polyphonic effects, or global unison; it can get crazy pretty fast. It's not hard to make a 1000+ voices patch.