I Have an Uncomfortable Admission to Make

[zerocrossing]

I'm pretty much sympatico with everything you wrote. The VSTs are really impressive now so I am finding more of my hardware purchases have to do with wanting to narrow my focus and tackle something with some limitations and a bit of well thought out knobbage so I can relate to it on that level. Even that is hypocrtical to an extent as I am now two cases deep into a modular rig. So what is that all about? Lego for adults?

I do like to take my hands off the mouse button from time to time. A little hybrid satisfaction seems to work well with my brain. I don't think my ears could make a convincing case that analog synths sound better but the interaction is often more satisfying even if inconvenient at times.

At any rate, it is nice to see Bones reflect a bit, change his posture slightly and not feel that a shifting or a poorly expressed opinion is the end of the world.

Anyway, a lot of people seemed to get tied up in the nature of things, which is kind of funny to me, because it seems to take the focus off why we buy instruments: because we love how they sound and/or we love how working with them is.

One of the first things I do when I hear a hardware synth demo is I try to follow along with the closest thing I have in plugins. Can what I have make a similar sound? Yes? Don’t buy it. No? Buy it.

I’m sure this will make me sound like a pompous ass, (as usual! ) but I consider true wisdom to not be the ability to not make mistakes, but to have the mental plasticity and humility to admit it and move forward. I’m wrong all the time, but I like to think that when people call me out for my sh!t, I can change my perspective and apologize. I just did that in the Modwave thread. I didn’t understand it’s filter gain controls, which led me to a false understanding.

[BONES]

is this your way of telling us, you've finally had your ears syringed?

Mate, I have my ears syringed at the doctor's once or twice a year. It's not something I like to talk about, it's a bit yucky, but since I stopped going to the beach every day (more than 30 years ago now), it has become a semi-regular part of my life. So ha-ha, the joke's on you!

[ghettosynth]

I’m sure this will make me sound like a pompous ass, (as usual! ) but I consider true wisdom to not be the ability to not make mistakes, but to have the mental plasticity and humility to admit it and move forward. I’m wrong all the time, but I like to think that when people call me out for my sh!t, I can change my perspective and apologize. I just did that in the Modwave thread. I didn’t understand it’s filter gain controls, which led me to a false understanding.

I just wanted to confirm this...
























...he's definitely wrong all the time.

[zerocrossing]

I’m sure this will make me sound like a pompous ass, (as usual! ) but I consider true wisdom to not be the ability to not make mistakes, but to have the mental plasticity and humility to admit it and move forward. I’m wrong all the time, but I like to think that when people call me out for my sh!t, I can change my perspective and apologize. I just did that in the Modwave thread. I didn’t understand it’s filter gain controls, which led me to a false understanding.

I just wanted to confirm this...
























...he's definitely wrong all the time.

And here I was thinking you were a good person. I fully admit my mistake.

[BONES]

Obviously the wrong mistake. Your real mistake was not agreeing with ghettosynth, which is a pervasive problem in the modern world. Nobody wants to hear anything that doesn't align with their preconceived notions. They are not interested in evidence or logic, or even truth, just in having their world view constantly reinforced. It's why the divide gets bigger and more and more bridges fall into the abyss between. Eventually the divide will get so big that it won't be possible to bridge it at all and, at that point, we'll all be well and truly f**ked.

[ghettosynth]

And here I was thinking you were a good person. I fully admit my mistake.

Oh stop it. We both know that I'm a pompous ass. I think that we can also both agree that I'm hilarious!

[ghettosynth]

Obviously the wrong mistake. Your real mistake was not agreeing with ghettosynth, which is a pervasive problem in the modern world. Nobody wants to hear anything that doesn't align with their preconceived notions. They are not interested in evidence or logic, or even truth, just in having their world view constantly reinforced. It's why the divide gets bigger and more and more bridges fall into the abyss between. Eventually the divide will get so big that it won't be possible to bridge it at all and, at that point, we'll all be well and truly f**ked.

I love these gems of wisdom from you BONES!

[zerocrossing]

Obviously the wrong mistake. Your real mistake was not agreeing with ghettosynth, which is a pervasive problem in the modern world. Nobody wants to hear anything that doesn't align with their preconceived notions. They are not interested in evidence or logic, or even truth, just in having their world view constantly reinforced. It's why the divide gets bigger and more and more bridges fall into the abyss between. Eventually the divide will get so big that it won't be possible to bridge it at all and, at that point, we'll all be well and truly f**ked.

I think Ghettosynth and I are just giving each other sh!t, so I wouldn’t worry about him. If I couldn’t take it, I wouldn’t give it.

There’s a meme right now going around on social media that got posted in a “America’s Cultural Decline Into Idiocy” group. It wasn’t posted ironically, but it was totally ironic, as all it did was post a very alternative looking woman (aggressive tattoo, septum piercing, etc) and said, “the last thing a burger made of cricket protein sees before it’s eaten.” My response was, “is the idiocy in thinking that anyone who doesn’t look like you and eat like you is totally wrong?”

But here we are. I don’t care that people have found something that makes them happy, whether it’s hardware synthesizers, face tattoos or cricket protein burgers. What I do care about is when people take something that’s clearly subjective and decides there’s an objective correct way to talk about it. Not to burst your bubble of self growth, but you are sort of well known as one of the loudest of the “this is the way it is,” people. I applaud your admission, though. Maybe next time you cut down something you don’t like, think about this moment and maybe try to understand that these things aren’t math problems with specific solutions, they’re just things we use to make art, and everyone can have their own take on it.

[BONES]

That's a stupid outlook for a place like this, where people come for useful advice. If people could be more objective, the world would be in a much better place but to suggest that every stupid idea anyone ever came up with is as good as every decent, useful idea, is clearly going to create more problems than it fixes.

The main problem is that people feel the need to justify everything, rather than accept that there may be little or no logic behind some of their decisions. In my own case, I own lots of hardware. I like having it around, it feels right. But it's not rational and none of it is better than some of the free VSTi I own. GR-8 sounds way better than Uno Synth Pro, for example. I'm fine with that and I don't understand why others can't be, too.

[ghettosynth]

That's a stupid outlook for a place like this, where people come for useful advice.

Absolutely! Which is why I ALWAYS try to give useful advice, ALWAYS!

[revvy]

I prefer HW synths to SW synths, and prefer nearly all other forms of music to EBM/Industrial, because those are my preferences.

The main problem is that people feel the need to justify everything

Not me!

[ghettosynth]

I ... and prefer nearly all other forms of music to EBM/Industrial, because those are my preferences.

That's pretty common, could be more than preference. Hardcore is worse. Not happy hardcore mind you, it's pretty bad, but it's one of the few genres with the power to make you smile AND roll your eyes at the same time.

Here's a tutorial, in case anyone's inspired to give it a go...

[zerocrossing]

That's a stupid outlook for a place like this, where people come for useful advice. If people could be more objective…

Why the bloody f do you think people could be “more objective” about something that’s totally subjective? Someone who asks, “what sounds better,” clearly has no idea what they’re really asking about, because it’s like asking, “what’s sexier, blonds or brunettes?” I mean, not including actual issues (I once got a Prophet 12 that had a noticeable oscillator leakage issue) it comes down to what someone likes. Are you sure when they’re syringing your ears out, they’re not going a bit too deep, because that might also explain why your music isn’t popular with most people. People have different opinions about what sounds good.

For instance, when I first heard the Uno, it sounded broken to me. Turns out, there was actually an issue with the unit they used to make the demo tracks. Hope they sacked someone for that, because it was clearly an issue, nothing subjective about it. How that made it to an official product page is beyond my capacity to understand. I heard some user demos after that and I thought they were fine, but nothing to write home about. Now I’m listening to Loopop’s demo and right off the bat I hear those bleeding oscillators, and I’m out. That’s unfortunate, but I guess you get what you pay for. The filter does sound nice, and the drive is also pretty tasty, but I’d put it squarely in the “nice starter synth for the money, but not quite worth the interface inputs.”

But is that “objective” truth? Of course not. I’m sure plenty of people are ignoring the issue and making fine sounds with it. If you asked my advice, I’d tell you that if you like your Uno Synth Pro, you should pony up for an actual pro grade analog synth. You’re well within your rights to tell me to get bent, but isn’t that grand? We all have different ideas about what things should do and how they should sound.

[BONES]

Why the bloody f do you think people could be “more objective” about something that’s totally subjective?

Because it's not "totally subjective". You can say with 100% objectivity that the oscillators in a Model D are absolutely huge. You only need to connect a spectrum analyser to see it for yourself. Equally, you can say with 100% objectivity that the Ladder filter in a Model D attenuates everything as you increase resonance, robbing the sound of much of that hugeness at high resonance settings. Again, if your ears can't hear it, a spectrum analyser will confirm it. They are simple facts but whenever I dare to mention the latter, I get told to f**k off and that I have no idea what I'm talking about. That, by and large, is because people can't accept that something they like/love/revere is not perfect, which is just silly. It's particularly silly in the world of analogue synths, where it's the imperfections that people are most drawn to, yet it also seems more pervasive there.

Someone who asks, “what sounds better,” clearly has no idea what they’re really asking about, because it’s like asking, “what’s sexier, blonds or brunettes?”

Not really. Blondes and brunettes make equally useful sperm receptacles but some synths definitely sound better for certain things than others. e.g. If you want a fat, squelchy resonant bass sound, you're not going to use anything with a ladder filter. Those discussions are all about context, which gets lost all the time, once people start rabbiting on about their favourite things.

that might also explain why your music isn’t popular with most people. People have different opinions about what sounds good.

I dunno, number 1 or 2 in the Alternative chart, or two spots behind Tay-Tay in the dance chart, it doesn't really matter to me.

Now I’m listening to Loopop’s demo and right off the bat I hear those bleeding oscillators, and I’m out.

What do you mean by "bleeding oscillators"?

But is that “objective” truth? Of course not. I’m sure plenty of people are ignoring the issue and making fine sounds with it. If you asked my advice, I’d tell you that if you like your Uno Synth Pro, you should pony up for an actual pro grade analog synth.

I've had plenty of those over the years, I'd take the Uno Pro over any of them. Right now I can compare it to my Analog Keys and my bandmate's Subsequent 37 and I'd take it over either of them. It just sounds meaner [which is largely, but not totally, subjective).

[BONES]

I prefer HW synths to SW synths, and prefer nearly all other forms of music to EBM/Industrial, because those are my preferences.

Clearly there is no accounting for taste.

Hardcore is worse. Not happy hardcore mind you, it's pretty bad, but it's one of the few genres with the power to make you smile AND roll your eyes at the same time.

Serious question, apart from the chipmunk vocals, what makes that worse than any other EDM genre? It's just the same krap, only faster.