I Have an Uncomfortable Admission to Make

[revvy]

Hardcore is certainly not worse.

This takes me back to a particularly rough afters party back in the back in the back in the day

https://youtu.be/F2XGodNf4Ks

[ghettosynth]

Hardcore is certainly not worse.

It's certainly not any better. I even have a few hardcore records. They slipped in because of hard acid tracks on them, which was a thing for me at some point. I also have a few industrial records, but those from when I didn't know any better.

I'm gonna need some ear-bleach now.

[revvy]

Hardcore is certainly not worse.

It's certainly not any better. I even have a few hardcore records. They slipped in because of hard acid tracks on them, which was a thing for me at some point. I also have a few industrial records, but those from when I didn't know any better.

I'm gonna need some ear-bleach now.

As the vocalist says on that track “It’s nice” (teeth clenched like a bastard).

[ghettosynth]

and there it is...

[zerocrossing]

Why the bloody f do you think people could be “more objective” about something that’s totally subjective?

Because it's not "totally subjective". You can say with 100% objectivity that the oscillators in a Model D are absolutely huge. You only need to connect a spectrum analyser to see it for yourself. Equally, you can say with 100% objectivity that the Ladder filter in a Model D attenuates everything as you increase resonance, robbing the sound of much of that hugeness at high resonance settings. Again, if your ears can't hear it, a spectrum analyser will confirm it. They are simple facts but whenever I dare to mention the latter, I get told to f**k off and that I have no idea what I'm talking about. That, by and large, is because people can't accept that something they like/love/revere is not perfect, which is just silly. It's particularly silly in the world of analogue synths, where it's the imperfections that people are most drawn to, yet it also seems more pervasive there.

Someone who asks, “what sounds better,” clearly has no idea what they’re really asking about, because it’s like asking, “what’s sexier, blonds or brunettes?”

Not really. Blondes and brunettes make equally useful sperm receptacles but some synths definitely sound better for certain things than others. e.g. If you want a fat, squelchy resonant bass sound, you're not going to use anything with a ladder filter. Those discussions are all about context, which gets lost all the time, once people start rabbiting on about their favourite things.

that might also explain why your music isn’t popular with most people. People have different opinions about what sounds good.

I dunno, number 1 or 2 in the Alternative chart, or two spots behind Tay-Tay in the dance chart, it doesn't really matter to me.

Now I’m listening to Loopop’s demo and right off the bat I hear those bleeding oscillators, and I’m out.

What do you mean by "bleeding oscillators"?

But is that “objective” truth? Of course not. I’m sure plenty of people are ignoring the issue and making fine sounds with it. If you asked my advice, I’d tell you that if you like your Uno Synth Pro, you should pony up for an actual pro grade analog synth.

I've had plenty of those over the years, I'd take the Uno Pro over any of them. Right now I can compare it to my Analog Keys and my bandmate's Subsequent 37 and I'd take it over either of them. It just sounds meaner [which is largely, but not totally, subjective).

And back to my foe list you go. Silly me for thinking that you might be growing as a person.

[kevvvvv]

zero crossing said

I consider true wisdom to not be the ability to not make mistakes, but to have the mental plasticity and humility to admit it and move forward. I’m wrong all the time, but I like to think that when people call me out for my sh!t, I can change my perspective and apologize.

Couldn't agree more.

You gotta be able to stand in your own shit and laugh.

Being honest, I think BONES does this sometimes too, though I can't ever recall an actual apology

[imrae]

You can say with 100% objectivity that the oscillators in a Model D are absolutely huge. You only need to connect a spectrum analyser to see it for yourself.

I've no idea what one would be looking for. What does the spectrum of a "huge" oscillator look like and is this something that people will really agree on?

[kritikon]

This is what you see in an oscilloscope attached to a ModelD.

[kritikon]

But this is what you see when the whole synth is engaged

[kritikon]

But with unison engaged

[kritikon]

Actually it would be more like this - it's 4 osc isn't it?

[BONES]

And back to my foe list you go. Silly me for thinking that you might be growing as a person.

Right, because having a foe list is such a mature, grown-up thing. Don't forget to write in your diary that the fat man was mean to you today.

I've no idea what one would be looking for. What does the spectrum of a "huge" oscillator look like and is this something that people will really agree on?

I was thinking the same thing but I reckon it would show in the amount of content across the frequency spectrum. It doesn't interest me enough to actually do it, because it is easy enough to hear, but I reckon it would be obvious enough if you compared it to a few others. There being three of them probably helps, too. That's certainly the case with GForce's SEM and Uno Synth Pro.

I remember playing with a MiniMoog in a second-hand shop in 1981 or '82 and being blown away by the oscillators but not really liking the thing overall. I'd never seen anyone using one on stage, although I had seen it in a video clip or two, but it didn't hold any particular interest for me. I ended up buying a Korg Delta instead, mostly for its polyphony. The Delta had a really nice filter.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

I'm pretty sure my Uno Pro sounds better than any equivalent softsynth in my arsenal. The important qualifier here is "equivalent", which means a monosynth without any unison capability. But it includes two of my favourite VSTi, GForce's SEM and FBM's MonoFury, so it's no faint praise.

It's taken you two years to figure out that a 3-oscillator VCO monosynth sounds better than your GForce and FBM synth plugins? i guess better late than never. But I could have told you this in the first two minutes of playing the Uno Pro.

Then there's the fact that the Uno Pro is not a massive leap forward in hardware designs. I can name at least 10 better sounding / more functional analog monosynths:

Dreadbox Typhon
Moog Subsequent 37
Novation Bass Station II
Sequential Pro 3
Studio Electronics SE-3X
Waldorf Pulse 1
Waldorf Pulse 2

These were just a few of the monosynths that feature a display and patch storage. It we eliminate these constraints we have:

Studio Electronics MIDImini v30
Studio Electronics SE-02
Dreadbox Hades
Dreadbox Erebus
Moog Minitaur
Moog Subsequent 25
Behringer 2600
Behringer Crave
Behringer K-2
Behringer Neutron
Behringer Model D
Behringer MonoPoly
Behringer Odyssey
Behringer Pro-1

This is far from an exhaustive list. But many, if not most, of these synths sound better than the Uno Synth Pro. They are also often easier to use due to their more faithful and expansive knob/slider layout.

So it's not a "battle" between the Uno Synth Pro and the entire plugin world. There are other VCO monos that can crush the best VST monosynths.

[BONES]

I'm pretty sure my Uno Pro sounds better than any equivalent softsynth in my arsenal. The important qualifier here is "equivalent", which means a monosynth without any unison capability. But it includes two of my favourite VSTi, GForce's SEM and FBM's MonoFury, so it's no faint praise.

It's taken you two years to figure out that a 3-oscillator VCO monosynth sounds better than your GForce and FBM synth plugins? i guess better late than never. But I could have told you this in the first two minutes of playing the Uno Pro.

Then there's the fact that the Uno Pro is not a massive leap forward in hardware designs. I can name at least 10 better sounding / more functional analog monosynths:
...

Sorry, not even close. I had a Pulse 2 but I got rid of it. It was way too anodyne for my liking. I like Rocket's sound (and immediacy) more. And there is no way in hell I'd swap my Uno Pro for my bandmate's Subsequent 37. f**king ladder filters, spare me days! I wouldn't even have swapped my original Uno for the S37. And that's ignoring the fact the S37 cost him four times more than Uno Pro cost me (and more like 8 times what you can get them for now). He's woken up to it, too, I can't remember the last time he used his S37 at all. We'll probably take it on stage next time we play, just because it looks so cool, but it will be all for show.

These were just a few of the monosynths that feature a display and patch storage. It we eliminate these constraints we have:
...
This is far from an exhaustive list. But many, if not most, of these synths sound better than the Uno Synth Pro. They are also often easier to use due to their more faithful and expansive knob/slider layout.

The more knobs/sliders, the more shit that's never in the right spot when you go to adjust it. Absolutely useless on stage. It's got to be endless rotary encoders or nothing.

So it's not a "battle" between the Uno Synth Pro and the entire plugin world. There are other VCO monos that can crush the best VST monosynths.

No, there aren't. None of them are worth what they cost, even Uno Synth Pro, and we'd never even contemplate using any of them in production. They simply don't stack up to even cheap VSTi. e.g. Uno Synth Pro can sound ever so slightly bigger than GForce's SEM but, like every synth in each of your lists, it is absolutely crushed by bx_oberhausen with it's 32 voice unison capability. Then there are stupidly cheap VSTi that can also outperform anything in your lists. At the moment you can pick up Soundspot's Union for $20 and it is just about the hugest sounding synth in all of creation. I'd' take that over anything in your list, every day of the week.

Yes, I know you specifically said "VST monosynths" but that's kind of my point - you have to have very, very narrow criteria in order for hardware to make any kind of sense at all and thos ekinds of distinction in the VST world are pointless and meaningless. If someone makes a VSTi monosynth, they are doing it for stupid reasons, because it doesn't cost a penny more to make a polysynth. That's why bx_oberhausen will always beat SEM and OB-E and it's why software synths will always be better than hardware in every way.

[machinesworking]

I'm pretty sure my Uno Pro sounds better than any equivalent softsynth in my arsenal. The important qualifier here is "equivalent", which means a monosynth without any unison capability. But it includes two of my favourite VSTi, GForce's SEM and FBM's MonoFury, so it's no faint praise.

I think any time I've argued for hardware, it's because of a specific piece of hardware, i.e. that particular configuration. To a certain degree I still think the irregularity of analog oscillators have some advantages, but it's merely one thing among dozens of things that make up a synth, and not surprisingly stable digital soft synth oscillators sound better in many many cases.

I mean it's possible IK release a software version that sounds just as good, if they put in the time to make it right.