Do you hate the looks Windows 10/11 - WindowBlinds might be the solution, look like Mac or anything

[fmr]

But, if I’m paying $2000 for a laptop anyways, why would I buy the one that only runs Windows, instead of the one that runs both, ceteris paribus.

Does the current M machines run Windows? Not that I'm aware.

Of course all things are not the same, since Windows laptops in that price range are all “gaming systems” as already pointed out, and are noisy as hell.

Bullshit. As I already wrote, I have a gaming laptop (which actually cost way less than 2.000, more like half of it) and I rarely hear the fans working.

[sQeetz]

Does the current M machines run Windows? Not that I'm aware.

Screenshot 2023-02-13 at 17.56.59.jpg

And remarkably well at that, too...

[audiojunkie]

But, if I’m paying $2000 for a laptop anyways, why would I buy the one that only runs Windows, instead of the one that runs both, ceteris paribus.

Does the current M machines run Windows? Not that I'm aware.

Of course all things are not the same, since Windows laptops in that price range are all “gaming systems” as already pointed out, and are noisy as hell.

Bullshit. As I already wrote, I have a gaming laptop (which actually cost way less than 2.000, more like half of it) and I rarely hear the fans working.

Linux works fine on them, so if Windows works, all three OSes are working on ARM processors.

[BONES]

Well, good for you.

When I ask a simple question and all I get back is that, how stupid do you think it makes you look?

Wow, that's one noisy fecking chorus...

Yes, it is, but people still revere it. That's kind of my point.

But these laptops were that level, all the time, right on the desk, intruding on my ambient drone bllx big time.

They must have been some seriously cheap shit laptops. Of course, if it was really an issue, you could just buy a fanless laptop. I had a water-cooled Acer 2-in-1 a few years ago that was thinner than a Surface Pro. To be fair, it was only a Core i5 but it did the job when we were still using Orion for everything. I'm back on a Core i5 now but the 12th Gen Intel i5's are much more serious CPUs than Core i5 used to be. I can hear the fan on this Core i5, but only if I put my ear to the exhaust port, and it pumps enough air that you can feel it coming out of the exhaust when you reach across the top of the screen. Interestingly, they are both things I hadn't noticed at all until just now, when I went looking for them.

First off, obviously I had made the decision to invest a little more in a laptop in order to get a better build quality. So that goes without saying.

But you said it was made of plastic. You'd have to go out of your way to find a $2000 PC laptop with a plastic chassis. The G7 I got for a grand is the only one of the last 10 laptops I've owned with a plastic chassis or lid and that's not something I care about even a little bit. In fact, if I had a choice, I'd probably choose plastic over metal because it doesn't get dents and scratches don't show as badly. Even the mid-range Inspiron I bought 5 or 6 years ago had a metal chassis (and lid, IIRC). So when you specifically moaned about plastic, that can only mean you went out of your way to find one, presumably so you'd have something to complain about, or you bought something much cheaper than a MacBook.

But, if I’m paying $2000 for a laptop anyways, why would I buy the one that only runs Windows, instead of the one that runs both, ceteris paribus.

As I said, you'll always pay more because Apple will force you to pay for things you don't need, in order to get the things you do need. So you'll be paying a lot more than you need to, to get what you want.

Of course, you can't run Windows on any MacBook any more, so that's a dead argument now. In any event, having had to use Bootcamp so I could use 3DS Max on a Mac, I can tell you that it's not something you'd want to do unless you really, really had to. Apple seemed to go out of their way to make the Windows experience as bad as it could possibly be.

since Windows laptops in that price range are all “gaming systems” as already pointed out, and are noisy as hell.

Not at all. Dell, HP and Lenovo all make laptops for serious creative professionals. Dell have their Precision series, HP has their "Z"s and Lenovo do their own, too. You won't find those things in a big box store but they are easy enough to order on line. Or you could do what I did and spend that money on a pro grade laptop with dual screens. Only one of my laptops has been a gaming machine.

Of course, I never spend MacBook money because you don't need to, unless you feel like paying full retail price. If I buy a Dell, I get a factory refurb from their eBay store for about half retail, with full on-site, next-day warranty. Otherwise, I buy things when I see them cheap. e.g. My RoG Flow Z13, which is a gaming 2-in-1 that comes with a keyboard cover and stylus, has a list price of Au$2499 but I picked it up for Au$1800 (less than US$1200 at the time) during a mid-year sale last year. At Balck Friday sales, I could have picked up the Core i9 version for $200 more, which was extremely annoying, but the i5 more than meets my needs.

[jamcat]

First off, obviously I had made the decision to invest a little more in a laptop in order to get a better build quality. So that goes without saying.

But you said it was made of plastic. You'd have to go out of your way to find a $2000 PC laptop with a plastic chassis. […] So when you specifically moaned about plastic, that can only mean you went out of your way to find one, presumably so you'd have something to complain about, or you bought something much cheaper than a MacBook.

To clarify, yes, my Windows laptops were usually whatever middle-of-the-road bang:buck that Asus had on offer at the time. I did all my audio production on my Windows DAW. But I got to where I was traveling a lot and wanted something closer to my workstation for the road. So that's when I decided to invest more. I spent around $2000 USD on my 16” MacBook Pro. It was that cheap because it was new old stock when I got it, but specs were comparable to Windows laptops of the same size and price range at the time.

When I got my M1, I traded in that Intel MacBook, and got back almost half of what I paid for it in discounts from Apple. This one doesn’t run Windows natively, obviously, but I had already ditched the idea of needing a Windows boot a few years before.

But, if I’m paying $2000 for a laptop anyways, why would I buy the one that only runs Windows, instead of the one that runs both, ceteris paribus.

As I said, you'll always pay more because Apple will force you to pay for things you don't need, in order to get the things you do need. So you'll be paying a lot more than you need to, to get what you want.

Actually, the problem with Apple is they force you to pay a premium for the things you do need. If you want a decent sized SSD or RAM, you pay through the nose. That’s where they make their money. It’s the same with the iPhone. My M1 MacBook Pro has a 1TB SSD and 32GB unified RAM. Those two increased the base price a good bit. But after trade-in, it cost about the same as the one I was trading in that had only 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM. And I went from a quadcore i7 to a 10-core M1 Pro that’s faster than my Windows desktop DAW.

[BONES]

To clarify, yes, my Windows laptops were usually whatever middle-of-the-road bang:buck that Asus had on offer at the time. I did all my audio production on my Windows DAW. But I got to where I was traveling a lot and wanted something closer to my workstation for the road. So that's when I decided to invest more. I spent around $2000 USD on my 16” MacBook Pro.

When I was travelling around Asia in 2003-04, demonstrating workstation type software, Autodesk gave me a Dell M60 which was easily able to run 3DS Max and Combustion fast and smooth. By 2008 I had an M90 and that thing was even better, able to handle huge files like they were thumbnails. One of my demos involved 8 layers of 4k 3D renders (multi-pass) and it performed like they were SD video. And that stuff is a lot more demanding than audio production.

When I got my M1, I traded in that Intel MacBook, and got back almost half of what I paid for it in discounts from Apple.

I normally get 75%-80% of my purchase cost back when I upgrade, sometimes even more. The only exception was my SurfaceBook but I wouldn't buy another Microsoft computer because, like Apple, they don't do decent discounts so you overpay up-front.

Actually, the problem with Apple is they force you to pay a premium for things you do need. If you want a decent sized SSD or RAM, you pay through the nose. That’s where they make their money.

That too but what I used to find was that to get the top-end specs, I had to go up a size, so even though I wanted a 13" laptop, I'd have had to buy a 15" MBPro to get the spec I wanted, which added a grand to the price.

It’s the same with the iPhone. My M1 MacBook Pro has a 1TB SSD and 32GB unified RAM. Those two increased the base price a good bit. But after trade-in, it cost about the same as the one I was trading in with only 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM. And I went from a quadcore i7 to a 10-core M1 Pro that’s faster than my Windows desktop DAW.

But only around the same speed as a good Dell Precision 5760. My 2-in-1's Core i5 is faster than my laptop's Core i7, because it's one generation newer, so you'd expect your newest computer to be your fastest.

[GaryG]

Well, good for you.

When I ask a simple question and all I get back is that, how stupid do you think it makes you look?

[/quote]

You said "I've had computers with noisy fans and it didn't bother me in the slightest." Well, yeah, so have I, noisy to the point of intruding on the sound I'm working and that does bother me, if you can work like that then, yeah, good for you.

But these laptops were that level, all the time, right on the desk, intruding on my ambient drone bllx big time.

They must have been some seriously cheap shit laptops ... I'm back on a Core i5 now but the 12th Gen Intel i5's are much more serious CPUs than Core i5 used to be. I can hear the fan on this Core i5, but only if I put my ear to the exhaust port, and it pumps enough air that you can feel it coming out of the exhaust when you reach across the top of the screen. Interestingly, they are both things I hadn't noticed at all until just now, when I went looking for them.
[/quote]

I guess lower-ish end gamers, lenovo legion, acer predator(?). Fans kept ramping up seemingly at random. I guess you can disable the GPU but then you have effectively the same spec as my lower end Dell with the same processor...

But, yeah, i5s; i've an 11th gen xxxH model and it flies, best single thread performance in that price range at the time of looking, rarely hear any fans unless I really lean in while processing video or something.

[GaryG]

Well, good for you.

When I ask a simple question and all I get back is that, how stupid do you think it makes you look?

You said "I've had computers with noisy fans and it didn't bother me in the slightest." Well, yeah, so have I, noisy to the point of intruding on the sound I'm working and that does bother me, if you can work like that then, yeah, good for you.

They must have been some seriously cheap shit laptops ... I'm back on a Core i5 now but the 12th Gen Intel i5's are much more serious CPUs than Core i5 used to be. I can hear the fan on this Core i5, but only if I put my ear to the exhaust port, and it pumps enough air that you can feel it coming out of the exhaust when you reach across the top of the screen. Interestingly, they are both things I hadn't noticed at all until just now, when I went looking for them.

I guess lower-ish end gamers, lenovo legion, acer predator(?). Fans kept ramping up seemingly at random. I guess you can disable the GPU but then you have effectively the same spec as my lower end Dell with the same processor...

But, yeah, i5s; i've an 11th gen xxxH model and it flies, best single thread performance in that price range at the time of looking, rarely hear any fans unless I really lean in while processing video or something.

[fmr]

But, if I’m paying $2000 for a laptop anyways, why would I buy the one that only runs Windows, instead of the one that runs both, ceteris paribus.

Does the current M machines run Windows? Not that I'm aware.

Of course all things are not the same, since Windows laptops in that price range are all “gaming systems” as already pointed out, and are noisy as hell.

Bullshit. As I already wrote, I have a gaming laptop (which actually cost way less than 2.000, more like half of it) and I rarely hear the fans working.

Linux works fine on them, so if Windows works, all three OSes are working on ARM processors.

I presume you are talking about some kind of VM. That's not "running Windows" IMO. Older Macs were able to run Windows natively.

[fmr]

Does the current M machines run Windows? Not that I'm aware.

Screenshot 2023-02-13 at 17.56.59.jpg

And remarkably well at that, too...

That's a VM. Doesn't qualify as "running Windows", IMO. Sure, you can run some games, as you mentioned, but you can't do ANYTHING you can with a real Windows machine.

Older Macs were able to run Windows natively, as in BOOTING. Not anymore, AFAIK. Running a VM in ARM means passing through several layers of "translations". That has to reflect negatively in performance and work.

[jamcat]

Windows 11 (ARM version) runs very well in Parallels, as I’ve heard. I haven’t actually bothered though. When I talked about choosing a computer that ran both, that was in regards to my reasoning when I bought my Intel Mac. I didn’t care about running Windows on my laptop by the time I got my M1 MacBook, though, as I explained a few posts back.

Perhaps one of the internet’s many nerd communities could hack Windows ARM to boot natively on M1, eventually?

Linux can now run natively on Apple Silicon, thanks to the Asahi Linux project.

[fmr]

Apple is continually moving forward, while Windows is still stuck on the same processor architecture from the ‘80s.

Windows 11 (ARM version) runs very well in Parallels, as I’ve heard.

So... Is Windows "stuck on the same processor architecture from the 80s" or not?

[2DaT]

Linux can now run natively on Apple Silicon, thanks to the Asahi Linux project.

You can, but should you ? Running a system, that vendor doesn't officially support, with reverse engineered drivers.

What doesn’t work
DisplayPort
Thunderbolt
HDMI on the MacBooks
Bluetooth
GPU acceleration
Video codec acceleration
Neural Engine
CPU deep idle
Sleep mode
Camera
Touch Bar

Yeah, I guess you can "run" a Linux on apple silicon, but realistically you don't want to.

[whyterabbyt]

ARM architecture design : 1983

[jamcat]

I don’t know. So far, Microsoft has dropped the ball on Windows ARM, and has botched it worse than they botched Windows Phone. If you remember that. No biggie if you don’t.

Microsoft should have begun full scale transitioning of Windows to ARM a long time ago, but they didn’t, and they don’t seem to even know what to do with it. Once again, like Windows Phone.

I’ve never used Windows ARM nor do I know anyone who has. I have no idea what software if any runs on it, or where you get it or how you make it run.

In fact, probably the only thing that could possibly pull Windows ARM across the finish line would be native booting on Apple Silicon.