KVR Audio

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:04 pm

when you refer to say 'Deep House' or 'Dubstep' as "EDM", you just sound like one of those dudes who walks around with his shirt off at a music festival to attract some poon. Drum & Bass insn't EDM. Deep House isn't EDM. Psytrance isn't EDM. Trap isn't EDM.
EDM is a specific vein of mainstream shite, released by Spinnin records and the like. Lowest common denominator music with elements bastardised from all the other genres that t-shirt off guy just couldn't attract enough poon in.

twal · Post by **twal** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:57 pm

That makes the expansions more diverse than what that guy was saying.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:49 pm

AKA: Hair-Splitting Justification.
You guys are entertaining though!

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:32 am

i get that some people just use 'EDM' and a general lazy way of throwing every 'electronic' genre into the same basket. but really, my soapbox rants aside... tell me WHAT kind of genre that isn't "electronic" will you be using Avenger for? Death Metal? Polka? Folk? come on, like there's gonna be Progressive Rock sound pack? Grunge? Acoustic ballads? i guess so, what the f**k do I know

Mandolin Classics?
108 MASSIVE BANJO BANGERS

twal · Post by **twal** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:48 am

sqigls wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:32 am i get that some people just use 'EDM' and a general lazy way of throwing every 'electronic' genre into the same basket. but really, my soapbox rants aside... tell me WHAT kind of genre that isn't "electronic" will you be using Avenger for? Death Metal? Polka? Folk? come on, like there's gonna be Progressive Rock sound pack? Grunge? Acoustic ballads? i guess so, what the f**k do I know

Mandolin Classics?
108 MASSIVE BANJO BANGERS

Haven't you read the "need some good bagpipes?" Thread?

msvs · Post by **msvs** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:24 am

pointless and OT discussion. I am out

Leo1999 · Post by **Leo1999** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:00 am

Not sure why some people and op do not comprehend that there are two groups of people.
One group that distinguish between house, techno, electro, trance, drum&bass etc.
And another group that considers it all edm.
Is it so hard to comprehend?
Someone who is not into house or techno or etc will experience a fatigue effect after watching three XP Avenger videos (except only a few xps like guitar), it's so monotonous, it's just edm, sounds and rhythms with the vibe of 25-35 years ago.
So I am not surprised some are scared off by the way Avenger is promoted. No surprise it mainly attracts edm people and I am not trying to say edm (techno, house, electro etc.) is bad.
So there is an understandable reason for Avenger's reputation as a"cheap" or boring edm synth plus the videos of Bartek add the image of a solo disco-edm-party entertainer workstation, what even adds more cheapness to it.
It's the op with his expansions and expansions of other similar sound designers who created the image and reputation of Avenger and this way scare off some potential buyers or scare off from even wanting to demo Avenger.
Some posts in this thread are the only reason I am going to demo it, but I am not in a hurry, it's just curiosity, I am not expecting a lot, though.

twal · Post by **twal** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:28 am

If someone wants to go research every synth preset pack out there and compile a list of them in order to give credence to this sentiment, feel free to. Most preset packs out there cater to electronic music. I am confused also as to why their are complaints when most people here want to create there own sounds (don't answer this question)? Most preset banks are kinda trash tbh out there. Avenger 's Atmospherica, Cinematic, and Melancholia preset banks blow most synths' banks (and the synths themselves) out of the water with outstanding presets that have multiple sounds, sometimes 5X in one patch.

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:59 am

if you're at the point in music production where you are looking to purchase an phenomenally advanced synthesizer such as Avenger, but to you 'all music is EDM', then maybe you need some more time to study electronic music. If you're not into house or techno, then why are you watching the videos? The sound packs are pretty clearly labelled with the name of the genre right there. As for "cheap" or boring edm synth, it doesn't even matter what you mean by this, because it's just lacks any veracity whatsoever.
Demo it, listen to the components, the oscillators, filters, envelopes etc... man, it's a total powerhouse, and can sound like anything you want it to pretty much. If you don't like the sound demos because of the rhythms, that has nothing to do with Avenger. but really, you can't expect the sound demos of an electronic synthesiser to cover a plethora of 'non-electronic' sounds. It's capable, but it's just missing the point. You're obviously not into electronic genres, so maybe just go buy some bagpipes and move on.

Leo1999 · Post by **Leo1999** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:22 am

sqigls wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:59 am if you're at the point in music production where you are looking to purchase an phenomenally advanced synthesizer such as Avenger, but to you 'all music is EDM', then maybe you need some more time to study electronic music. If you're not into house or techno, then why are you watching the videos? The sound packs are pretty clearly labelled with the name of the genre right there. As for "cheap" or boring edm synth, it doesn't even matter what you mean by this, because it's just lacks any veracity whatsoever.
Demo it, listen to the components, the oscillators, filters, envelopes etc... man, it's a total powerhouse, and can sound like anything you want it to pretty much. If you don't like the sound demos because of the rhythms, that has nothing to do with Avenger. but really, you can't expect the sound demos of an electronic synthesiser to cover a plethora of 'non-electronic' sounds. It's capable, but it's just missing the point. You're obviously not into electronic genres, so maybe just go buy some bagpipes and move on.

I see your point, but I am not to blame for Avenger's reputation amongst non-edm producers. I like watching videos of all kinds of plugins and Avenger obviously is pretty one-sided or are there sounds/expansions like Roland JV expansions with a lot more variet, a brass or Spanish flamenco music or world or 60s&70s or...,? I don't think so

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:49 am

Leo1999 wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:22 am
sqigls wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:59 am if you're at the point in music production where you are looking to purchase an phenomenally advanced synthesizer such as Avenger, but to you 'all music is EDM', then maybe you need some more time to study electronic music. If you're not into house or techno, then why are you watching the videos? The sound packs are pretty clearly labelled with the name of the genre right there. As for "cheap" or boring edm synth, it doesn't even matter what you mean by this, because it's just lacks any veracity whatsoever.
Demo it, listen to the components, the oscillators, filters, envelopes etc... man, it's a total powerhouse, and can sound like anything you want it to pretty much. If you don't like the sound demos because of the rhythms, that has nothing to do with Avenger. but really, you can't expect the sound demos of an electronic synthesiser to cover a plethora of 'non-electronic' sounds. It's capable, but it's just missing the point. You're obviously not into electronic genres, so maybe just go buy some bagpipes and move on.
I see your point, but I am not to blame for Avenger's reputation amongst non-edm producers. I like watching videos of all kinds of plugins and Avenger obviously is pretty one-sided or are there sounds/expansions like Roland JV expansions with a lot more variet, a brass or Spanish flamenco music or world or 60s&70s or...,? I don't think so

Roland JV-XXXX is a rompler, right? (Don't know for sure). Then it should maybe not be compared to Avenger, but rather Nexus? Or any other rompler. Or why not Kontakt.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:13 am

As was said, the Demo is out of date and will be soon removed completely.
Could care less what the sound packs are branded as, but am equally not fooled by developers/designers saying how unique they are when they're such a high percentage of being close to being the same. Which does unfortunately lead to a customer base under the same illusions.
Abandoned demo, all anyone has are those videos. And apparently both are outdated. A kind of inbreeding then happens... If it hasn't already.
I admit the thread became entertaining because of the logical inconsistencies (we all have some lurking about).
Wish nothing but the best for all, regardless of idiom or genre.
Always seemed like a good synth, but just triggered personal flags of why I don't want to deal with them.

If you enjoy it, then definitely do.

Trancit · Post by **Trancit** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:43 am

Leo1999 wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:22 am I see your point, but I am not to blame for Avenger's reputation amongst non-edm producers. I like watching videos of all kinds of plugins and Avenger obviously is pretty one-sided or are there sounds/expansions like Roland JV expansions with a lot more variet, a brass or Spanish flamenco music or world or 60s&70s or...,? I don't think so

And I can name with ease at least 20 other instruments having something like this neither...

If you like it or not if you are more into the original "Workstation" kind of sounds you should concentrate on these to find what you are looking at...

sqigls is completely right here...
If Avenger isn´t your cup of tea, simply move on...
I cannot imagine somebody buying a product like Avenger for having some old workstation sounds...
Avenger is a synth powerhouse (even if there is sample support) and the type of sounds you describe have actually nothing in common with "synthesis" but more with (multilevel) sampling... so perhaps more a job for Falcon, Kontakt, Halion, Roland Romplers, Korg Romplers... etc...

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:32 pm

There's a slightly wider view missing here in this point in the discussion.

For synth sounds inc EDM, yes, Avenger is brilliant. It's range is incredible.

For more real instrument sounds, then the choice is Kontakt, and its many libraries.

Between these two, Avenger and Kontakt, you almost have it all, a perfect sonic palette on tap.

I frequently write for both in the same piece, so whatever music pops up in my head, I have a tool to do the job.

................

As an example of Avenger's power, just take a look at the wavetable editor.

This excellent video takes 25 mins to cover it, and that's just one small but important part of Avenger's capability.

Leo1999 · Post by **Leo1999** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:22 pm

Ok I see. I can judge Avenger only by the promotion and videos and opinions of users who have either demoed it or own it.
The fan boys call it powerhouse, others also "one sided edm synth".
Native Instruments? Kontakt?
Back to the Middle Ages? Sorry, no.
If there's one dev whose place is the cemetery for many years (just my opinion!),
then it's NI.
And someone who thinks real instruments or genres different from edm can only be covered by samplers, well, ever noticed some lack of innovation and creativity? , maybe your best friend is called repetition, maybe you just feel comfortable in your small edm world like the op not being able to think out of the box.

Btw that's how the last released xps were promoted here
"You know that you want this unique expansion pack!....
get it now at vengeance-sound.com"

Wow! Unique? I listened to the whole video for the first time and then listened to some more expansions and was faced with the opposite of versatility. Unique?
There's obviously some desperation and a sign that someone 's creativity has reached its limit by the way the expansions are promoted. And my assumption proved me right when I saw at vengeance sound site how many xps were released.

Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread