KVR Audio

hcv242 · Post by **hcv242** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:57 pm

Hello all. I have made an acid test. The objective was to find the most versatile synth to do acid basslines and not to find the most similiar sound to a tb-303. The synths tested are the behringer td-3, behringer deepmind 12, access virus ti2, waldorf pulse 2, modal cobalt 8m, dreadbox typhon and the korg minilogue xd (my fave). I've used the same midi sequence in all the synths and i have tried to match volume levels. I also used the same filter automation in all the synths, except for the td-3 because it does not allow midi cc automation. If you like acid sounds, tell me what you think. What synths are you favorites for this kind of sounds?

here is the video:

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:48 pm

Cool comparison!

My fav was probably the Behringer and, great, now I need to buy one so thanks a lot.

The most unique sounding one to me was the Typhon, especially once the filter started to open and that trademark Dreadbox sound came out.

Least fav was the Cobalt - it just sounded sorta lifeless to me and lacked depth compared to the others.

It would be cool to share your MIDI file so we could try it with other synths and upload our results. I'd love to hear how some of my other monos (e.g., Sub37, Pro3, Slim Phatty, SE-1X, and SE-02) compare.

hcv242 · Post by **hcv242** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:55 pm

cryophonik wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:48 pm Cool comparison!

My fav was probably the Behringer and, great, now I need to buy one so thanks a lot. The most unique sounding one to me was the Typhon, especially once the filter started to open and that trademark Dreadbox sound came out.

Least fav was the Cobalt - it just sounded sorta lifeless to me and lacked depth compared to the others.

It would be cool to share your MIDI file so we could try it with other synths and upload our results. I'd love to hear how some of my other monos (e.g., Sub37, Pro3, Slim Phatty, SE-1X, and SE-02) compare.

i will share the midi sequence as soon as i visit my studio again

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:54 pm

I think you did a very nice job and the results from several synths were better than i expected.

My favorites are the TD-3 (duh) and the Virus ti2.

I think it might also be interesting to try these with a beat, as i find that Acid lines cannot be too bass heavy as to not clash with the kickdrum. And Acid just isn t a Moog bassheavy bassline, one is Acid and the other is a classic bassline. In that respect, i found that the sub-oscillator of the TD-3 MO diverted the sound somewhat away from Acid towards a more classic bassline synth.

The Typhon had a very interesting texture but I m also interested here to hear how it does when combined with a kickdrum as it is more bass heavy.

hcv242 · Post by **hcv242** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:42 pm

Stefken wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:54 pm the results from several synths were better than i expected.

Any synth with legato and portamento (to do the slides) can sound similar to a tb-303.
It's all about careful sequence and synth programming.

thanks for the thumbs up

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:30 pm

Nice job. For me there were very clear preferences.

Equal 1st
Korg - I've always been a fan of Korg filters - it just gelled as a whole - full, rubbery, squelchy, characterful
Dreadbox - again, superb filters. I'm going to have to buy one sooner or later. It sounded like it was raring to be released and scream you ears off

2nd
TD3 - the most 303-ish, but not necessarily my actual favourite here. There's a small range of sound where TD3 would do it better than any of the others, but for this kinda sequence it doesn't rule

3rd
Deepmind, which surprised me quite a lot. It sounded very much like a 101/202 there. Far more rubbery/bassy than I'd expect. Came very close to being equal 2nd with the TD3

4th
Virus - The filter completely lost the note on slides and ties, though it did retain some bass

Equal last
Cobalt. Made a passable attempt but utterly lacked bass and power. It didn't actually sound as rough as the Pulse2 but overall it was just weak.
Pulse2 - rough as guts. Dunno what it was but it sounded like it was put through a cheap overdrive or broken 80s DACs. Surprised me how bad it sounded

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:33 pm

kritikon wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:30 pm 3rd
Deepmind, which surprised me quite a lot. It sounded very much like a 101/202 there. Far more rubbery/bassy than I'd expect. Came very close to being equal 2nd with the TD3

Yeah, the DM surprised me, too! But, then again, it seems like it always does and makes me wonder why I've never owned one.

hcv242 · Post by **hcv242** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:47 pm

kritikon wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:30 pm Pulse2 - rough as guts. Dunno what it was but it sounded like it was put through a cheap overdrive or broken 80s DACs. Surprised me how bad it sounded

i think i might have left, by accident, the tube distortion turned on. if it happened it was just turned on and set to 0. anyways, i didnt liked it either, to the point that i've selled it a few days later to this recordings.

pixel85 · Post by **pixel85** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:42 pm

For me, those sound very different which makes it more difficult to judge.

TD-3 - naturally, the most classic acid sound out of all of them. Apparently square wave in TD-3 is not perfectly cloned but I it's the first time I like square 303 (I mean in my TD-3 when I began to use it).
Deepmind - surprise. It really has a rubbery Roland sound. I didn't know that so thanks for showing it.
Typhon - very digital and flat sounding. I don't know if Typhon is digital, most likely not

Cobalt - is better than I expected as I'm officially a hater of this synth

Virus Ti - I think that you can squeeze more acid from Virus. I always liked 303 from Virus which was used A LOT in older Psytrance.
Pulse - ok, this one sounds bad
Minilogue - the most different sounding out of all of them. It's quite rubbery. Not 303 rubbery but it's close.

I prefer to use TD-3 for acid. Because it's the closest sound to the real thing. I also prefer to use its sequencer than the piano roll for acid patterns*.

* of course I would prefer to have a sequencer like in Phoscyon but it is what it is

hcv242 · Post by **hcv242** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:59 pm

pixel85 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:42 pm Virus Ti - I think that you can squeeze more acid from Virus.

5 of the 7 synths in this video are analog, and have only one filter type, which gives them a trade mark sound. In the case of the virus ti and the cobalt (which are the two digital ones) many filters are available, which takes them away the possibility to have a trademark sound. In this Virus recording i have used the "LP 3 pole Analog" filter (not really analog since it's a digital emulation) because it should be the one closest to the 3 pole lp used by the original roland machine. but i really can't tell, maybe other filter would have sounded better. Too many options, most of the times, is not a good thing. The cobalt has like 30 filters

pixel85 · Post by **pixel85** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:20 pm

hcv242 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:59 pm
pixel85 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:42 pm Virus Ti - I think that you can squeeze more acid from Virus.
5 of the 7 synths in this video are analog, and have only one filter type, which gives them a trade mark sound. In the case of the virus ti and the cobalt (which are the two digital ones) many filters are available, which takes them away the possibility to have a trademark sound. In this Virus recording i have used the "LP 3 pole Analog" filter (not really analog since it's a digital emulation) because it should be the one closest to the 3 pole lp used by the original roland machine. but i really can't tell, maybe other filter would have sounded better. Too many options, most of the times, is not a good thing. The cobalt has like 30 filters

I spent my entire life believing that 303 has 3 pole filter. But apparently, it's not true

I saw some debates about it. For example, check "The 18dB versus 24dB 'dispute'" section
https://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=diode

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:18 pm

Yeah, I agree that the Virus can do some really nice 303 sounds, but my understanding was that the OP was simply trying to use the most similar settings among all of the synths ("...not to find the most similiar sound to a tb-303"). I also agree with many other replies here about the Pulse 2 sounding among the worst of the bunch, but it's pretty capable of doing squelchy or rubbery 303 sounds. I've never owned the Cobalt, but I would assume that it could do a better job as well. I think that's one reason I like this comparison/contrast. I see so many youtube synth comparison vids where the presenter tries to make everything sound similar, whereas I'm usually much more interested in hearing how they differ.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:45 pm

Likewise - it's good to hear the real character of synths (usually filters). Even though nominally trying to do a 303 thing, that Dreadbox couldn't help but scream out it's character to me. I don't want to hear how a Dreadbox can sound shit like a Juno etc...I wanna hear it sing! Which it did here IMO. A good thread to do that, well done OP

.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:55 pm

pixel85 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:42 pm For me, those sound very different which makes it more difficult to judge.

TD-3 - naturally, the most classic acid sound out of all of them. Apparently square wave in TD-3 is not perfectly cloned but I it's the first time I like square 303 (I mean in my TD-3 when I began to use it).
Deepmind - surprise. It really has a rubbery Roland sound. I didn't know that so thanks for showing it.
Typhon - very digital and flat sounding. I don't know if Typhon is digital, most likely not
Cobalt - is better than I expected as I'm officially a hater of this synth
Virus Ti - I think that you can squeeze more acid from Virus. I always liked 303 from Virus which was used A LOT in older Psytrance.
Pulse - ok, this one sounds bad
Minilogue - the most different sounding out of all of them. It's quite rubbery. Not 303 rubbery but it's close.

I prefer to use TD-3 for acid. Because it's the closest sound to the real thing. I also prefer to use its sequencer than the piano roll for acid patterns*.

* of course I would prefer to have a sequencer like in Phoscyon but it is what it is

The Phoscyon thread here at KvR gave me a headslap moment. You can export sequences from Phoscyon, and use them to play TD3. I kinda knew that but didn't register it properly. So I can use the wonderful Phoscyon sequencer to come up with sequences, and use those for the TD3 with it's original and awful sequencer. Apparently accents work properly but ties don't but it's likely there's a way to do it. Must start doing that because, like you, I really like the TD3 for it's sound. I just hate the 303 sequencer, always did. I barely touched it because I forgot how very much I hate the 303 sequencer, now I can use it properly.

robindrieghe · Post by **robindrieghe** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:24 pm

interesting topic and well executed!

The Roland TB-303 Sound - A comparison with various synths