Got Fu**ed by FabFilter (Got fixed by FabFilter, cause after all we're only human)

[Double Tap]

Another point is that the capacity to sell your purchase means the capacity to make a mistake and then legitimate "impulse buy". It is very comforting for a buyer to buy something knowing that it can be resold if it was a mistake... So this "resell-able licence" are actually part of the marketing of the companies...

I’ve never seen any company do that. I’ve seen companies give money back guarantees, but outside of multi-level marketing pyramid schemes, I’ve never seen any company advertise the reselling of their products as a selling point.

“Go ahead and buy our product, and when you figure out it’s crap, go ahead and make it someone else’s problem!” isn’t a great sales pitch.

I have made a few purchase mistakes. Expressive E Arché Collection was a $120 mistake. But I’m not going to sell a product I know is bad on to someone else. Why would I want to be that person?

So basically I don't think you should shame people because they buy second hand. That is not where we should draw the line. The line is "is it legal or not". End of the story.

Many things that have exploited and abused people have been legal throughout history. Many still are. But those things have always been wrong, unethical, and immoral, regardless of what the law said. “Is it legal” has never been synonymous with “is it right.”

If you start to shame people buying the second hand, then where to draw the line ? Why not shaming also people trying to get discount or sales as a next step ?

This is a very good and valid question. And I think the deciding factor is the developer. Any price the developer sets is fair game. That is the amount they are willing to take for their work. It is their choice. The problem arises when you take it upon yourself to take that choice from them, along with their rightful revenues.

You can see the advantage for companies by comparing how it works for physical instruments - because people know a Moog will tend to appreciate in value, it means buying one feels like less of a risk, precisely because it can be resold. And it’s good branding, because it makes their new products more appealing for the same reason.

Plugins are obviously different but I think the premium brands have an incentive to create the same vibe. I’ve seen Urs say on here that one of the reasons for not discounting Zebra Legacy is to protect the second hand value of Zebra 2 and ZebraHZ. It makes it easier for U-he to maintain a premium price, it means customers think of their plugins as assets as well as tools which feel more valuable - and that’s important for creating a good feeling around new products too.

[gaggle of hermits]

EDIT: This was resolved by FabFilter, but I'll leave it as is - as a lesson learnt.

oh look, OP has edited the first post after all that ranting.

going to leave the f**ked by fabfilter headline though. what a star.

[Proteinshake]

Hey guys, I am happy to report that the deactivation of my account is of now reversed. Mistakes were made on both ends. My lessons learnt from all this:

• I will most likely exclusively purchase from FabFilter directly from now on

• If I do want to go second hand, I'll have the seller provide details so FabFilter can run a check if it is indeed legit

• For extra safety, always keep your conversations with a seller and PayPal receipts

Thanks again everyone. And thanks to FabFilter for coming trough!

Thanks for the detailed documentation, that helps a lot. I apologize for jumping to wrong conclusion regarding your account's activities. The provided PDF's show that you had the correct intentions purchasing the plug-ins. I have immediately reactivated your account.

...

We have seen some unwanted license transfers in the past. We are making additional security measures to prevent this from happening. Until then these cases are handled manually, and judgement calls have to be made by people in our team. Unfortunately we can sometimes be wrong as well, like in this specific case. We should have at least contacted you regarding the transfers before deactivating your account. We apologize for the inconvenience.

[FakeNatty]

Very good to see they corrected their mistake quickly and was opened minded to the possibility of their mistake.

[revvy]

I’m in tears here right now

[whyterabbyt]

now lets see apologies from those who were basically accusing the OP of being a scammer.

nah, wont f**king happen, will it.

[ralfrobert]

Hey guys, I am happy to report that the deactivation of my account is of now reversed. Mistakes were made on both ends. My lessons learnt from all this:

• I will most likely exclusively purchase from FabFilter directly from now on

• If I do want to go second hand, I'll have the seller provide details so FabFilter can run a check if it is indeed legit

• For extra safety, always keep your conversations with a seller and PayPal receipts

Thanks again everyone. And thanks to FabFilter for coming trough!

Thanks for the detailed documentation, that helps a lot. I apologize for jumping to wrong conclusion regarding your account's activities. The provided PDF's show that you had the correct intentions purchasing the plug-ins. I have immediately reactivated your account.

...

We have seen some unwanted license transfers in the past. We are making additional security measures to prevent this from happening. Until then these cases are handled manually, and judgement calls have to be made by people in our team. Unfortunately we can sometimes be wrong as well, like in this specific case. We should have at least contacted you regarding the transfers before deactivating your account. We apologize for the inconvenience.

That's great news, thanks for the info. I've followed this thread as I had the impression Fabfilter is a great small company with great support, a pricing model that is in favor of returning customers, high quality products ... and I was right, I suppose.

The only downside for you was the effort you had to take -- that's unpleasant. But their reaction was ok. They are human after all. This seems like a breeze of fresh air to me looking at other companies just cashing in, lacking proper support, not selling assets you invest in, but game-like products.

Just my 2c.

[jens]

now lets see apologies from those who were basically accusing the OP of being a scammer.

nah, wont f**king happen, will it.

I'm certainly not holding my breath here...

[vurt]

happy to see it resolved.

also nice to see they agree with me, they should have been in contact


but yup, we are all just humans, mistakes can be made.

[billcarroll]

Hey guys, I am happy to report that the deactivation of my account is of now reversed. Mistakes were made on both ends. My lessons learnt from all this:

• I will most likely exclusively purchase from FabFilter directly from now on

• If I do want to go second hand, I'll have the seller provide details so FabFilter can run a check if it is indeed legit

• For extra safety, always keep your conversations with a seller and PayPal receipts

Thanks again everyone. And thanks to FabFilter for coming trough!

Thanks for the detailed documentation, that helps a lot. I apologize for jumping to wrong conclusion regarding your account's activities. The provided PDF's show that you had the correct intentions purchasing the plug-ins. I have immediately reactivated your account.

...

We have seen some unwanted license transfers in the past. We are making additional security measures to prevent this from happening. Until then these cases are handled manually, and judgement calls have to be made by people in our team. Unfortunately we can sometimes be wrong as well, like in this specific case. We should have at least contacted you regarding the transfers before deactivating your account. We apologize for the inconvenience.

So happy you got this resolved. They are human after all

[UtopianLament]

now lets see apologies from those who were basically accusing the OP of being a scammer.

nah, wont f**king happen, will it.

After we get the apologies from the people who were so quick to blame Fabfilter.

[whyterabbyt]

now lets see apologies from those who were basically accusing the OP of being a scammer.

nah, wont f**king happen, will it.

After we get the apologies from the people who were so quick to blame Fabfilter.

And yet it was Fabfilter who were at fault. They've admitted that.

Yeah, I can see how that makes more sense than admitting being wrong about the OP.

[Ploki]

They could've at least given you a free license for something you don't have for being so trigger-happy
I'm not joking.

And I love FabFilter and it's good to hear they resolved it, but this kind of fuckups are usually compensated for nuisances.

[billcarroll]

now lets see apologies from those who were basically accusing the OP of being a scammer.

nah, wont f**king happen, will it.

After we get the apologies from the people who were so quick to blame Fabfilter.

And yet it was Fabfilter who were at fault. They've admitted that.

Yeah, I can see how that makes more sense than admitting being wrong about the OP.

I don't see any helpful actionable advice provided by the mob attacking FabFilter. The fact is, FabFilter provides an FAQ and a free service to check these licenses to prevent exactly the problems the OP experienced. I see a lot of users here on KVR with high post counts who contribute noise and unhelpful comments, on every single topic. I guess every play needs the noise of a chorus. What actionable and helpful advice did you provide to the OP?

FabFilter is a company made of up good people who have done the right thing, as most good people will do when presented with the facts in a reasonable way rather than being attacked in a public forum. The noise and attacks on FabFilter were totally unnecessary.

We can all be happy FabFilter came through for the OP and resolved the issue properly. This was no surprise to me. It took the OP actually presenting the evidence to make that possible.

In the end, the OP was treated fairly by FabFilter and the OP treated FabFilter well by providing the information they actually needed in order to help. This is fantastic. Nobody here wanted to see the OP get scammed or taken advantage of.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't see any helpful actionable advice provided by the mob attacking FabFilter.

Yeah, the mob attacking the OP of being a scammer were so helpful.

The fact is, FabFilter provides an FAQ and a free service to check these licenses to prevent exactly the problems the OP experienced.

The fact is, the OP was presumed guilty until proven innocent, by Fabfilter and the mob who were desparate to absolve Fabfilter of any blame.
"I dont see anything wrong with what Fabfilter did here" remember?

I see a lot of users here on KVR with high post counts who contribute noise and unhelpful comments, on every single topic. I guess every play needs the noise of a chorus. What actionable and helpful advice did you provide to the OP?

And I see lots of users here on KVR with low posts who contribute noise and unhelpful comments when there's a pile on. What actionable and helpful defence against a mob of accusations did you provide to the OP?

Nice to know who'll double down on being on being wrong, though.