Presets vs. automation in SX2

[cptgone]

I want my VSTi to reset to a preset of mine in the beginning of my SX2 project.
(after that things are automated, so that a second run sounds different if I don't reload the preset in between)

Is there some way to have SX2 import the fxb?

Or do I have to record the adjustment of each and every knob?

Switching presets while recording only gives me a program change... (useless, as the program itself is being changed by the automation)

[cptgone]

Maybe I'l rephrase this...

- My track starts with my KLC MS20 doing a patch of mine.

- Then this patch gets all tweaked up in the course of the song (I recorded the controller's sysex in SX2), so that in the end it sounds quite different.

- When I want to listen to it from the start, I first have to re-load the patch.

Is there a way to automate this?

[ericj23]

the first choice on a vst's automation is the program list - just automate a change back to your preset at the start of the song

[Rozzer]

Should be as simple as choosing the patch name in SX's midi track. Every time you start the song it will select that patch.

[cptgone]

the first choice on a vst's automation is the program list - just automate a change back to your preset at the start of the song

I don't think that would work, as the preset is changed by the time the end of the track is reached.

I need to open the preset bank file all over again to get the original patch back.

[jdahlb]

Don't think it's possible any other way than you are doing it at the moment. Have a look here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67024

That's in essence the same problem you're having, isn't it?

Seems to be one of the "features" of the VST spec...

Jorgen.

[cold c]

No this is not an issue for me in SX3, when a parameter is automated with the automation write enabled and in playback mode, stopping, disabling the write and rewinding the track to the beginning automatically reverts the parameter back to the original value.

I don't understand what you mean by "I recorded the controller's sysex in SX2" ? Is this the VST parameter automation or not, does the automation display as standard SX automation lane lines and points?

If it is MIDI data (not VST parameter automation) then you may have to enable "File >> Preferences >> MIDI >> Chase Events >> Sysex >> checked".


.

[cptgone]

I don't understand what you mean by "I recorded the controller's sysex in SX2" ? Is this the VST parameter automation or not

No, it's just sysex transmitted by the KLC controller and recorded like any other incoming MIDI.

I'll try the Chase thing tonight.

Thanks!

[cptgone]

Don't think it's possible any other way than you are doing it at the moment. Have a look here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67024

That's in essence the same problem you're having, isn't it?

Seems to be one of the "features" of the VST spec...

Jorgen.

Indeed! Thanks Jorgen. I'll have to get used to it I guess... I hope Steinberg gets this sorted in VST 3.0 - or is that out already?

[cold c]

Don't think it's possible any other way than you are doing it at the moment. Have a look here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67024

That's in essence the same problem you're having, isn't it?

Seems to be one of the "features" of the VST spec...

Jorgen.

Indeed! Thanks Jorgen. I'll have to get used to it I guess... I hope Steinberg gets this sorted in VST 3.0 - or is that out already?

No, that's an entirely different "user error".

Please stop spreading misinformation about the VST spec. I am not saying the spec is perfect (it could be improved in a number of ways) but parameter automation and VST programs/banks work perfectly.

The VST spec on parameters is working as it is supposed to and SX parameter automation is working as it is supposed to.

cptgone, back to the actual problem, you may also need to send a "snapshot" of all the parameters from your controller (if possible?) at the beginning of the track before the patch starts playing. (again, this is not related to the VST spec.)

[cptgone]

you may also need to send a "snapshot" of all the parameters from your controller (if possible?) at the beginning of the track before the patch starts playing

That's exactly what I'm looking for.... but unfortunately, the Korg LC Controller doesn't feature motorised knobs. So, I'd have to approximate the on-screen settings before I could send such a snapshot.

If, OTOH, it were possible to just insert a fxb file in a MIDI track, my prob would be solved. Or, if I could send a snapshot from the KLC plug-in (instead of the Controller)...

[jdahlb]

It wasn't my intention to "spread misinformation" at all.

I just wanted to point out that there doesn't seem to be any way of going back to the original preset without reimporting the .fxp (which is what the other thread is about). And as far as I know this isn't possible to automate in SX.

Is there some way to have SX2 import the fxb?

Or do I have to record the adjustment of each and every knob?

Guess I was sort of answering just the first part of the question...

It should be perfectly possible if you send a snapshot of the preset and use automation, though. Just as you say, Cold C. So, I guess you do have to record the adjustment of each and every knob.

I hope Steinberg gets this sorted in VST 3.0 - or is that out already?

I'm pretty sure it's still v2.3.

Jorgen.

[Rozzer]

In the VAT automation tracks under your MS-20 instrument, you should find a track named Program List. Just insert an automation point at the beginning of the song (even make it change to a different program and back again, just for good measure).

oh, and make sure the automation track is read enabled, of course.

[Rozzer]

I think I meant VST, not VAT....

[cold c]

If, OTOH, it were possible to just insert a fxb file in a MIDI track, my prob would be solved. Or, if I could send a snapshot from the KLC plug-in (instead of the Controller)...

So Korg have provided a way to change a parameter in a "hardware fashion" but no way for the plugin (or controller) to send the complete state of the plugin as sysex like most hardware would, to be recorded?

If so, then you should probably tell Korg support that they should add the ability to output the current state of all the plugin parameters via VST MIDI out if possible (or standard MIDI port out or some other method), so it can be recorded in any sequencer.

I just wanted to point out that there doesn't seem to be any way of going back to the original preset without reimporting the .fxp (which is what the other thread is about). And as far as I know this isn't possible to automate in SX.

If you want to automate an fxp/fxb file load that is a host feature set issue (not a VST spec issue), I am not aware of any host that does this and it's probably because there should be no need for it (although you can put in a feature request with your host developer if you need it) because -

- If the user is just adjusting the parameters to get a particular sound (not recording the automation) then there is no need for the file import to be automated as the user can load the fxp/fxb file any time they want.

- If the user is adjusting the parameters (via standard VST automation) while recording the automation in the host, it is the host's responsibility to remember the state of the parameter before it was adjusted so the correct state can be recalled when the user rewinds the project. The user can also automate VST program changes, adjust some params, and go back to the previous VST program (in memory) as they left it.

- If the user is automating the parameters via other means like MIDI (not VST parameters) that the parameter needs to be explicitly reset at the beginning of a track, this is because the host has no idea what that plugin is using the MIDI data for (it is a black box to the host). However, when the plugin receives the MIDI to change a parameter, if well implemented it should relay that as standard VST parameter changes to the host (which is recordable in the host with the auotmation write button) so the original state of the parameter can be remembered at the start of the track via VST automation. Not all plugins do this (relay their own MIDI automation to VST parameter automation for the host, for example Ohmforce ohmygod doesn't but RGC z3ta+ does) but you should check your KLC to see if this works as it could provide a solution (automate with MIDI but record the VST parameter changes with the "W" write button).

With some plugins, like Ohmforce Ohmygod, whenever automation is recorded and a VST parameter is adjusted via the GUI, all parameters register their state in the host (even with no activity.) Something like this could be used to record the "snapshot" of all parameters, but this is not a normal implementation so probably doesn't occur in KLC.

you should find a track named Program List. Just insert an automation point at the beginning of the song (even make it change to a different program and back again, just for good measure)

Does that VSTi "forget" its state when changing programs? I remember some plugins used to behave that way but I haven't seen any that do that recently.

If the KLC plugin doesn't allow for one of the above solutions (recording sysex snapshot, relaying MIDI automation to VST parameter changes, or as Rozzer said automating the patch up and down) then you should contact Korg.

Please excuse all the above waffling.

Good luck.