Ooh, I like This Modular Rack...

[elxsound]

I actually really like the 960 and 962 combination. Great options for the price.

I probably don't need one since I have 0-Ctrl, but it'd fun to have this too. Again great prices. It's a beast! but that's not always a bad thing.

I have them both, I don't use the 962 enough to justify the $80 bump in price and I wish that I wouldn't have bothered. That said, I love the 960 and I really enjoy using this type of sequencer in a modular setup. At the moment I'm not planning on ordering a second one, but that may change. More likely, I will order something similar from someone else to act as a companion. I skipped the B.ARP sequencer but I have the mix sequencer. I don't really know at this point what would make a great companion, but it won't involve menu diving and it won't involve CPUs. It might involve DIY.

Isnt one of the points of owning the 962, expanding the number of steps to 24 (so you don’t need 2)?

I’m genuinely asking because a saw a quick note that you could do this, but I do not know how you get the extra steps and I’m guessing it’s not the same as owning 2

[SHall1000]

While we are on sequencers just a shout out for the Korg SQ 64 which I am having great fun using with the B.2600. Small footprint is the major plus for me. Work flow is much improved since the last firmware update. 3 polyphonic tracks and a drum track. Loads of CV outputs. Can be had for 200 ish or even cheaper for a refurbished unit.

https://www.korg.co.uk/products/c-sq-6 ... gJ_Q_D_BwE

[ghettosynth]

I actually really like the 960 and 962 combination. Great options for the price.

I probably don't need one since I have 0-Ctrl, but it'd fun to have this too. Again great prices. It's a beast! but that's not always a bad thing.

I have them both, I don't use the 962 enough to justify the $80 bump in price and I wish that I wouldn't have bothered. That said, I love the 960 and I really enjoy using this type of sequencer in a modular setup. At the moment I'm not planning on ordering a second one, but that may change. More likely, I will order something similar from someone else to act as a companion. I skipped the B.ARP sequencer but I have the mix sequencer. I don't really know at this point what would make a great companion, but it won't involve menu diving and it won't involve CPUs. It might involve DIY.

Isnt one of the points of owning the 962, expanding the number of steps to 24 (so you don’t need 2)?

I’m genuinely asking because a saw a quick note that you could do this, but I do not know how you get the extra steps and I’m guessing it’s not the same as owning 2

That's not why I want more than one. I would do things like trigger them at different rates, or use different reset times. You can use one to shift the output of the other giving you a bar/step sequencer. I seldom use more than an 8 step sequence and sometimes use less, 5, 4, or even 3.

The extra steps from the 962 come from the outputs being routed to the output of the sequential switch. So you plug all three outputs into the switch, and route the switch to advance at the end of the row. This way the first 8 are routed out, then the 962 advances and the next 8 are routed, and then finally the last 8. I didn't buy the switch for that, but a lot of people do that. I might use it for a 16 step from time to time with the third row being used on some other element.

[Stefken]

I actually really like the 960 and 962 combination. Great options for the price.

I probably don't need one since I have 0-Ctrl, but it'd fun to have this too. Again great prices. It's a beast! but that's not always a bad thing.

I have them both, I don't use the 962 enough to justify the $80 bump in price and I wish that I wouldn't have bothered. That said, I love the 960 and I really enjoy using this type of sequencer in a modular setup. At the moment I'm not planning on ordering a second one, but that may change. More likely, I will order something similar from someone else to act as a companion. I skipped the B.ARP sequencer but I have the mix sequencer. I don't really know at this point what would make a great companion, but it won't involve menu diving and it won't involve CPUs. It might involve DIY.

Isnt one of the points of owning the 962, expanding the number of steps to 24 (so you don’t need 2)?

I’m genuinely asking because a saw a quick note that you could do this, but I do not know how you get the extra steps and I’m guessing it’s not the same as owning 2

That's not why I want more than one. I would do things like trigger them at different rates, or use different reset times. You can use one to shift the output of the other giving you a bar/step sequencer. I seldom use more than an 8 step sequence and sometimes use less, 5, 4, or even 3.

The extra steps from the 962 come from the outputs being routed to the output of the sequential switch. So you plug all three outputs into the switch, and route the switch to advance at the end of the row. This way the first 8 are routed out, then the 962 advances and the next 8 are routed, and then finally the last 8. I didn't buy the switch for that, but a lot of people do that. I might use it for a 16 step from time to time with the third row being used on some other element.

You can also do repeats like do row 1 two times and then row 2 one time.




You trigger the sequential switch to err... switch via the 960.
But i m guessing you could also trigger it from another module and have 3 sequences running and have them all mangled up. With the switch not switching at the end of the row but following a complex modulator. I didn t find an example like this, but it would be a nice experiment.

[vurt]

While we are on sequencers just a shout out for the Korg SQ 64 which I am having great fun using with the B.2600. Small footprint is the major plus for me. Work flow is much improved since the last firmware update. 3 polyphonic tracks and a drum track. Loads of CV outputs. Can be had for 200 ish or even cheaper for a refurbished unit.

https://www.korg.co.uk/products/c-sq-6 ... gJ_Q_D_BwE

yup, i like this too.
there's a guy i watch, uses one with a strega a lot, it has some cool little tricks my other sequencers don't.
very tempting but i do already have a lot of sequencer options ...

one day though.
not like im allowed to save money, can only smoke so much weed, and have been told to slow down on spoiling the granddaughters

[ghettosynth]

While we are on sequencers just a shout out for the Korg SQ 64 which I am having great fun using with the B.2600. Small footprint is the major plus for me. Work flow is much improved since the last firmware update. 3 polyphonic tracks and a drum track. Loads of CV outputs. Can be had for 200 ish or even cheaper for a refurbished unit.

https://www.korg.co.uk/products/c-sq-6 ... gJ_Q_D_BwE

So, the sq-64 is cool, but, I want to make a distinction here since this is the modular thread. This kind of sequencer is intended to be used in the context of building your tracks, I suppose. I have more of this kind of sequencer than I need already. That said, I think that the SQ-64 has a great form factor and is very reasonably priced. For me though, I'm using the combination of a keystep pro and an AKAI Force for this role. Both, of course, are substantially more expensive, but have the features that I want. I wish the Force was better than it is, but that's a rant for a different time.

In other words, I have zero need for more of these kinds of sequencers and adding more would just serve to distract me from mastering the tools that I have.

In contrast, sequencers like the 960 are an integral part of modular and are neither a replacement for, nor can be replaced by sequencers like the SQ64. I think that these kind of sequencers work best when they are not based on microprocessors, although this isn't a strict distinction. But not having menu diving, having lots of gate and cv outs that directly connect to knobs, and being in the rack so that they can be quickly patched and integrated in a modular way, are all important.

They have so many more uses than just sequencing notes. Any place where you need a voltage or gate being sequentially generated they are useful. In fact, you can use them as a manually switched voltage source where enabling any step will now output three different voltages from the previously enabled step.

It really is flexible and the value is not in how many steps or whether it's a good choice for sequencing your songs, it's not. It's that it has so many inputs and outputs that are tightly integrated into the many real time controls.

For me, the question of whether I want a second one isn't about the money for a second one, it's about whether some other equally but differently capable choice is a better paring than a second 960. Also, to be clear, the 962 is useful for many things. I just don't think that if offers an equal value proposition to the 960.

Here's a nice video showing some more complex patching with the 962, e.g., using it to transpose. Note that you don't have to trigger the 962 from the 960.

[ghettosynth]

Oh shit, all that said, I'VE GOT TO GET ME ONE OF THESE!

[Stefken]

In contrast, sequencers like the 960 are an integral part of modular and are neither a replacement for, nor can be replaced by sequencers like the SQ64. I think that these kind of sequencers work best when they are not based on microprocessors, although this isn't a strict distinction. But not having menu diving, having lots of gate and cv outs that directly connect to knobs, and being in the rack so that they can be quickly patched and integrated in a modular way, are all important.

I think i am starting to feel that vibe. Having things all integrated and in the mindset of modular.

But thinking about the limitations of the 960 (like hmmm, how would i do that? ) has put CVilization under my spotlight now.

I would like to do variing sequences of more than 8 steps. CVilization has 4 channels of 1 to 16 steps of cv output so you can do an evolving composition with different sequence lengths and you don t need a switch to go above 8 steps. All without menudiving. Transposing is in there, quantization is in there , internal mod signals, ... Nice.

The price is a lot steeper but there is a lot more functionality in there. It is also a matrix mixer, cv ánd audio sequence switch of up to 8 steps, panner, ... and things i don t understand yet.

It can also mutate sequences and 'steal' notes from other sequences.
Yesterday I was thinking. Hmm, if i have a sequence running and then at some time intervals i want to switch to another sequence, how would i do that with the 960? Well, it looks like U-he has thought about all that already, it s all baked in. It s not an easy module, so i still have to get my head around it.

And while it can do all sorts of wild stuff, i appreciate a module where an eye for musicality is build in. Blipetibloop is all fine but musically pleasing results are a good thing too.

[ghettosynth]

I've looked at Civilization, and it may be right for you, but it's not for me. Civilization is modern modular, certainly. There is so much wrong with that approach that it just doesn't interest me. I have a "display-free" sequencer from noise engineering. It's not as complex as Civilization, but I'm constantly forgetting how to use it. The last thing that I need is to have to remember which color does what on one module in a sea of modules that all choose to do things differently. Truth is, I would want a display on a module like that and I think that PAM's gets the balance exactly right in terms of the modern aesthetic. It's one encoder knob isn't tiny and the display is readable. The expanders make sense, even if they're overpriced.

Comparing the 960 and Civilization In terms of value, you have eight tiny irritating knobs as opposed to 24, not large, but reasonable for Eurorack size knobs. That is a HUGE difference that, for me, trumps most other things that you discuss. In other words, I could see something like Civilization, but not Civilization, being a part of my rack, but not to replace the 960, rather, to augment it. Just watching the author trying to adjust his "instant Berlin School" with those tiny little encoders and his fingers all compressed and angled just so triggers me. Of all things in a modular that I don't care if it takes space, sequencers are above the cutoff knob on filters.

Re: Menu Diving. Sorry, that's just menu diving without an actual display. Green is natural minor? Ok, I don't make that association. Green is go, red is stop, anything else is a paper menu that requires me to reference something without the convenience of having a screen to see what it is. I'll need a folder of manuals if I go live with stuff like this. I can't remember which of the four or six colors, or even if there's four or six, represents the reverb on my Pico-DSP. Ok, well I can certainly hear it, but if I don't want to blat out some awful pitch shifting then I'll have to remember it.

For me, most of what Civilization does is better done with something like MAX. Don't get me wrong, I would buy Civilization if it wasn't trying so hard to be so modern. It needs bigger knobs, a display, more parameters, maybe even a touch screen.

I wanted to like it, I like what Urs does, generally, but I'm not on board with the value proposition or the design choices.

[Stefken]

Comparing the 960 and Civilization In terms of value, you have eight tiny irritating knobs as opposed to 24, not large, but reasonable for Eurorack size knobs. That is a HUGE difference that, for me, trumps most other things that you discuss. In other words, I could see something like Civilization, but not Civilization, being a part of my rack, but not to replace the 960, rather, to augment it. Just watching the author trying to adjust his "instant Berlin School" with those tiny little encoders and his fingers all compressed and angled just so triggers me. Of all things in a modular that I don't care if it takes space, sequencers are above the cutoff knob on filters.

Yeah, it would really be nice if i could try out these modules and get a feeling for how it works in practice. The immediacy and large knobs of the 960 is something that attracts. But i know in time i will want to do more than an 8 step sequence...
I could maybe get the 960 either way (not bother about the 962) as it is not all that much money and it will always be nice to have it in the modular. Then step up later on.... First world problems...

Re: Menu Diving. Sorry, that's just menu diving without an actual display. Green is natural minor?

Hmm, yeah . Maybe i was trying to sell it. I do know a thing or 2 about usability and CVilization does not have the natural affordance you would want. It s complicated and not intuitive. It is a learned process like driving stick. But i don t intent to buy a gazillion of modules, so i will get the hang of it. But it does have a large feature set and a deep module has never been something that deters me.

[vurt]

tbh, when i first got it (as a beta tester) i was terrified i wouldnt even be able to test it much, due to how complicated it seemed (we got the manual before the module) but on arrival, it's much simpler to use than it seems.
admittedly, not as straight forward as the 960, but then it does far more.
for what it does, it's quite simple. the colour coding, the chest sheet covers in one image for each mode, most of which would be preprogrammed before you get on stage for any live business btw
the sequencer, is more than a sequencer, it's a sequence recorder too, with overdub.
so the one place i do wholeheartedly agree with ghetto, rather than instead of a sequencer, it's a great augmentation to any other sequencer. (although can be used alone, just not as much fun as cross pollenation)

then there's the other modes too, which is why i ended up with two.
too often i found myself wanting to take the mucorder through the matrix mixer, sending different note lengths on different channels in the my, out to one channel for pitch on an oscillator and have the matrix cycle via lfo. creating some odd bits as the two channels cross-fading interacting on cv...

[vurt]

re two, i also have more space, not sure id want two for less than 4 rows of 104 hp

[Stefken]

the sequencer, is more than a sequencer, it's a sequence recorder too, with overdub.

It s not clear to me if you can enter a note sequence in CVilization just by turning knobs.
I like the immediacy of turning knobs and messing around without being forced into scale land right off the bat.

In the demo video, they enter the notes via the keyboard.

[vurt]

i would have to check!
i tend to use the keyboard or record from another sequencer, just because it can

[vurt]

can't promise ill get it done tonight, feeling a bit wiped out after a stomach bug yesterday
feel better but so tired