KVR Audio

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:22 pm

I reckon the price drops are already a reality but not always as much.
The Behringer 150 dropped to 49 dollars on sweetwater but remained on 90 euro on music store. Otherwise i would probably have bought it.

But all the behringer modules i bought dropped in price, albeit not as much. I guess we Europeans always have to pay more for the same product.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:23 pm

Double post

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:58 pm

Let's talk Morphagene, how do you use it? That should be read as "how are you using it?" What do you like about it, where does it work well, where does it not?

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:03 am

So newbie question. I was assuming, securitywise, you can plug your path cables pretty much anywhere. Things might not work but your machine will not catch fire.

So along the way of this video, this dude tells if you insert both the output of a lfo and enveloppe in a mult, hoping to sum them, things will catch fire. What s the story there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MriqxJvJxQ

imrae · Post by **imrae** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:43 am

It depends on the implementation of the module... If the LFO has a buffered output trying to make -4V and the envelope has a buffered outptut trying to make 8V and you connect them together then current will flow between them. The amount of current depends on the resistance so if both modules have low output resistance then this current could be too high and cause problems.

In practice most buffered synth modules have an output resistor in the range 100R-1k which will limit the current to something safe if they are shorted to a low-resistance source/sink. But it is not guaranteed, and some modules such as buffered multiples might choose not to.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:23 am

imrae wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:43 am It depends on the implementation of the module... If the LFO has a buffered output trying to make -4V and the envelope has a buffered outptut trying to make 8V and you connect them together then current will flow between them. The amount of current depends on the resistance so if both modules have low output resistance then this current could be too high and cause problems.

In practice most buffered synth modules have an output resistor in the range 100R-1k which will limit the current to something safe if they are shorted to a low-resistance source/sink. But it is not guaranteed, and some modules such as buffered multiples might choose not to.

Thank you for your explanation.

Is there a way to dumb this down or a way to make this more practical without me having to consult technical schematics for 15 minutes everytime I want to connect a patch cable? This would constitute as a workflow breaker I guess.

Is there a difference between a mult and a cv/audio mixer. For example can i assume that a mixer always has the necessary protection on board, as mixing/summing is kind of what is made for?

My specific setup is this : a Moog Grandmother and this modular configuration:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/2206773

The Grandmother has a mixer and a mult. The double VCF Behringer 121, although a VCF, also has mixers on the top row that can handle both cv and audio.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:36 am

i use either a mixer or vca for that.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:13 am

Stefken wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:23 am
imrae wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:43 am It depends on the implementation of the module... If the LFO has a buffered output trying to make -4V and the envelope has a buffered outptut trying to make 8V and you connect them together then current will flow between them. The amount of current depends on the resistance so if both modules have low output resistance then this current could be too high and cause problems.

In practice most buffered synth modules have an output resistor in the range 100R-1k which will limit the current to something safe if they are shorted to a low-resistance source/sink. But it is not guaranteed, and some modules such as buffered multiples might choose not to.
Thank you for your explanation.
Is there a way to dumb this down or a way to make this more practical without me having to consult technical schematics for 15 minutes everytime I want to connect a patch cable? This would constitute as a workflow breaker I guess.

Is there a difference between a mult and a cv/audio mixer. For example can i assume that a mixer always has the necessary protection on board, as mixing/summing is kind of what is made for?

My specific setup is this : a Moog Grandmother and this modular configuration:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/2206773

The Grandmother has a mixer and a mult. The double VCF Behringer 121, although a VCF, also has mixers on the top row that can handle both cv and audio.

Yes, don't mix with mults, full stop. You can use very simple mixers for this task, even mixers that are nothing more than the aforementioned current protection resistors. Mults are for routing one output to multiple inputs. Mixers are for mixing multiple outputs into one input.

Just like a kitchen mixer, a modular mixer "combines" ingredients. So, when you want to combine an LFO with an ADSR, you need to mix them.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:35 am

Thank you all for the advice.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:54 am

BTW: This is why atteuverters are so great. Consider a typical LFO, like one of the B.Rolands. There's no level output, this is normal. This is the same with EGs. So if you want to combine them, then you would typically not want 100% of both, rather, you want to adjust the relative impact of the two mod sources. Hence, the mixer comes into play. However, what an attenuverter/mixer allows you to do is to not only mix, i.e., adjust levels and combine, but also to invert. So when positive, your LFO may add in certain places to your EG but then as you roll it down it goes through no impact to now subtracting where it was adding.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:44 pm

some plaits plus borg filter, and mimeophon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAYvhZaZ7wg

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:16 am

The audio/video combo would fit nicely in some art exhibit Vurt.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:48 am

BTW. I am seeing extended Behringer price drops on Thomann for the European customers.

Devices like the K-2 and Behringer 150 have dropped in price now.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:12 am

For those who like the Behringer 2500 series, this is the original machine to geek over.

BTW : the matrix controllers on the bottom and top are actually sliders, not pins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgLoZ0X ... E&index=11

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:26 am

Stefken wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:12 am For those who like the Behringer 2500 series, this is the original machine to geek over.

BTW : the matrix controllers on the bottom and top are actually sliders, not pins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgLoZ0X ... E&index=11

Weirdly, I'm not so much a fan of the real thing. What is interesting about the series is that Alan R Pearlman was a really skilled engineer. He developed high quality temperature compensated exponential converters for his industrial electronics company that he owned previously and sold. These circuits were patented in 1968 and were used across the ARP range. So all of the circuits are among the best of what was available in the seventies using discrete components. The modern vairants were designed by Rob Keeble of AMSynths. Rob has dedicated much of his life to understanding and analyzing vintage analog synths. For me, the B.ARP series, along with the TipTop Buchla series, represents the best of what was available in the 70s but brought into the modern era by really capable engineers.

These ideas are now brought into Eurorack where we've ditched bananna jacks and switch matrices and we are now free to combine them with modules from others.

Frankly, and this may ruffle some feathers, I love what Behringer is doing because they know what they're doing, with respect to engineering at least. This cannot be said for everyone making Eurorack modules. There's quite a bit of overpriced mediocrity in terms of engineering. That said, I think that Behringer's product sense is often very weak and that's where I would turn to others.

For example, while I'm a fan of some of the B.Moog modules, I think the full recreation is a weak product. I get it, from a business POV it's a great product, maybe instrument is the better word here. Certainly there's no shortage of demand for vintage recreations. That said, S triggers are the Moog slider-matrix equivalent. Further, while the ladder filter and the C3 mixer are worthy musical devices, I think that Alan was the better engineer and I'm not really all that impressed with quite a few Moog circuits from the seventies. The B.Moog line is filled with a bunch of mediocre modules that are really only there to recreate the experience. Same with the B.Roland line. Don't get me wrong, I love quite a bit of vintage Roland gear from the 70s and 80s, but there's also a lot of mediocrity there.

Now, I should probably disclose at this point that I have become an Elenia Radigue giddy fanboi. At least with respect to most all of here works that are not orchestral. Elenia made her career on the ARP 2500.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcy5fLcAsQQ

I haven't yet purchased any of the B.ARP oscillators, I might not TBH. I'm not sure if I care, I have some sine wave oscillators that I really like already and, I mean, how many oscillators does one person actually need? But, if I wanted most of the ARP experience from that era then I'd start with the 2600, add the sequencer, the mix sequencer, the modamp, and the 1047 filter. I wouldn't really bother with the envelopes, I'd get something from someone else to fill out that role.

The 1047 is a thing of beauty. I will probably buy a second one.

Ooh, I like This Modular Rack...