KVR Audio

avatar · Post by **avatar** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:54 pm

I am same as the OP. I have been on Apple for 10 years and it is simple you have a choice of 1-2 machines per money range. Now I want to go for PC because I am on a money constraint so I read this thread and it is fascinating that nobody can come with a few PC laptop brand/model recommendations cheaper than the MBA/MBP (below 2000).

On my research, HP > Lenovo > Dell > Asus > Acer. But when I look for HP Envy laptop reviews, there seem to be several issues. Makes me weary going to PC because apparently you can't choose a PC just by reading CPU/RAM/HD specifications, you need to do your homework to understand the potential drivers, stability, integration issues.

Does anyone have actual PC laptop brand/model recommendations that would compete MBA/MBP?

Jac459 · Post by **Jac459** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:07 pm

Actually you have excellent laptop brands like Razer which have even a better design/finish than apple and absolutely top internal components. But they also cost a lot.

Currently apple has the edge in view of the CPU because of the M1/M2 that don't have yet proper competition in term of power/watt in pc world.

In terms of reliability I have had an excellent experience with a surface pro and a Razer advance. But as you say I would be a bit more cautious with very cheap PC.

As a conclusion, in your case I would look for an MBA second hand (M1) with apple warranty.

uOpt · Post by **uOpt** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:42 pm

avatar wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:54 pm Does anyone have actual PC laptop brand/model recommendations that would compete MBA/MBP?

No.

Anything resembling knowledge about specific laptops is outdated way too quickly, not to mention they are all studies of sample size 1. For example, I think everything Razer is overpriced garbage, contradicting the previous poster.

If you don't need a lot of RAM and SSD the Apple offerings are very competitive price-wise, if you want an equally fast CPU and an equally great screen in a PC laptop. Top of the line trackpad and usually way better speakers and potentially webcam and microphone array come on top.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:37 pm

avatar wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:54 pmI am same as the OP. I have been on Apple for 10 years and it is simple you have a choice of 1-2 machines per money range. Now I want to go for PC because I am on a money constraint so I read this thread and it is fascinating that nobody can come with a few PC laptop brand/model recommendations cheaper than the MBA/MBP (below 2000).

What's your desired spec? I'll find you half-a-dozen PCs that are at least 20% cheaper and at least one that closer to half the price of an equivalent Mac.

Does anyone have actual PC laptop brand/model recommendations that would compete MBA/MBP?

Here's one and, because it's a Dell, you can extend the warranty if 10 months isn't enough for you. It's a 12th Gen Core i5, which is what I am currently using for my DAW -

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165898213162

Here's another. I have no idea how new that AMD CPU is but the machine looks fairly new -

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/125828809947

It's a gaming laptop so you can upgrade it yourself, quite easily. (The seller recommends a second SSD.)

Just remember that the Australian dollar is only worth about two-thirds of a US dollar, so you can take one-third off those prices.

The thing is, you just have to look around for a bargain. If you buy off HP's website, you'll pay full price, which is crazy. e.g. The RoG Flow Z13 (like a Surface, only betterer), which I am using as my primary DAW at the moment, had a retail price of Au$2499 but I bought it last year when it was on sale for $1699. So if you just looked on Asus's website, you'd see a computer for $2499 but you'd be a mug to pay that for it. I got my laptop from eBay - it was 6 months old, still a current model and I got it for Au$1400, not Au$2599. When I sell it, I expect to get maybe $1200 for it, which will be an absolute bargain for whoever buys it, but I'll only lose $200 on the deal.

If you are used to buying Macs, you are used to paying whatever they ask for it but the huge advantage of the PC world is competition. You can find bargains everywhere if you look and you should never pay more than 80% of retail for anything. If you do what I do and buy when you see a bargain, not when you decide it's time for a new computer, you'll generally save 30%-40% on sticker prices and you won't lose much money when you sell your old machine, either. It's win-win.

The best time to buy is after Intel have announced their next generation CPUs and all the OEMs are selling out their current gen stock. When I got my Dell G7, they had dropped the price of the newest gen CPU powered G7, like it was the old gen (probably by accident), which is when I pounced - a Au$2500 laptop for Au$1350, brand new with a three year Dell next day, on-site warranty.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:44 am

BONES, for your particular use case, your choice of gear makes sense

Jac459 · Post by **Jac459** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:43 am

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:37 pm ... but the huge advantage of the PC world is competition. You can find bargains everywhere if you look and you should never pay more than 80% of retail for anything. If you do what I do and buy when you see a bargain, not when you decide it's time for a new computer, you'll generally save 30%-40% on sticker prices and you won't lose much money when you sell your old machine, either. It's win-win.

I am hell bent on ARM vs X86 so I won't be returning immediately to pc but I am indeed craving this diversity .... I am dreaming of a new Windows surface book (with ARM)...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:56 am

I imagine any kind of computer with a touchscreen and a full OS would be an improvement. After that, maybe a dual screen MacBook, something like my Zenbook Duo -

You do realise that ARM is ancient, right? It was very popular in servers in the 1990s but it lost out to x86 25 years ago. RIght now, both Apple and AMD have a huge advantage in their process but once Intel gets down to 5nm, they will romp away again. It's inevitable.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:11 am

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:56 am I imagine any kind of computer with a touchscreen and a full OS would be an improvement. After that, maybe a dual screen MacBook, something like my Zenbook Duo -

Am I remembering correctly that you don't love the second screen? It seems pretty awesome to me, particularly if it's a touch screen.

Jac459 · Post by **Jac459** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:30 am

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:56 am I imagine any kind of computer with a touchscreen and a full OS would be an improvement. After that, maybe a dual screen MacBook, something like my Zenbook Duo -

You do realise that ARM is ancient, right? It was very popular in servers in the 1990s but it lost out to x86 25 years ago. RIght now, both Apple and AMD have a huge advantage in their process but once Intel gets down to 5nm, they will romp away again. It's inevitable.

Well I have an engineering master degree in computer science and I am managing a 400 staffs IT department with development teams and infrastructure teams. So yes, I guess I understand pretty well the difference between arm and x86 (or risc vs cisc) including at code amd compilation level. Risc was better than cisc 30 years, and it still is. Arm will replace x86, it is inevitable. I remember my teachers saying that in the late 90s already... It took time but it finally happened.

But it isn't the topic of this thread and I am not looking at convincing you.

On the other end, your zenbook duo looks awesome. I am strongly missing oled screens...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:24 am

Uncle E wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:11 amAm I remembering correctly that you don't love the second screen? It seems pretty awesome to me, particularly if it's a touch screen.

No, I love the second screen. On the first one I bought, only the main screen had touch but on both the newer models, and the more expensive versions of my first one, both screens have touch. Honestly, I am really struggling with just one screen at the moment, while I await the delivery of my 3rd Gen laptop.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:02 am

I don't get why anybody would raise their arm+hand and touch a laptop screen.

What ergonomics is that?

I find the modern touchpads really good on laptops with gestures and everything.
And you rest your wrist nicely and get everything done with up to 4-finger gestures.

I even bought for desktop computer Perixx Peripad 504
https://eu.perixx.com/products/11572

Touch screen for a pad or tablet, ok, it's lying down on table or holding in left hand while operating with right hand. But for upright displays is awful ergonomics.

I looked at Akai MPC X for a bit, and the display functions were doubled with buttons for each operation as well. I think that is telling, to constantly raise hand and do things on screen is really a strain if to do that for hours.

I have an Asus Vivobook 3 years now, and just praise it for the touchpad. Simple gesture to zoom in/out usuall twofinger gesture, scroll left/right or up/down also twofinger moving sideways or up down. It's soon in your backbone and a thought away you are where you need to be on screen in no time.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:23 am

I also had a Dell XPS 13 and a 15 a while ago. Used the touchscreen a couple of times as it was new because it was a novelty, but it just didn't feel right.... plus all the smudges.

Jac459 · Post by **Jac459** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:04 am

sQeetz wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:23 am I also had a Dell XPS 13 and a 15 a while ago. Used the touchscreen a couple of times as it was new because it was a novelty, but it just didn't feel right.... plus all the smudges.

With Windows RT the interaction with touchscreen were awesome, a bit less good for Windows 10.

Still, Touchscreen remain a nice feature, even if not vital.
You can use touch with bitwig, and also with XY controllers, like output plugins (movement, portal, thermal), it is very nice.

I miss it now that I am on mac.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:41 am

Jac459 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:04 am With Windows RT the interaction with touchscreen were awesome, a bit less good for Windows 10.

I also had a Surface RT and an RT2.
I also liked Windows 8 as opposed to popular opinion...
As tablets they were awesome, and it's a shame people didn't like it, because I did... a lot.

I miss it now that I am on mac.

MacOS is not made to be touch-ready. And rumor has it, that Apple is working on a touch-MacBook. I don't want it... but we'll see what happens

janPos · Post by **janPos** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:18 pm

had both, never go back to apple. Worst is to combining both, it is just pain

Laptop or Macbook? Always been a Desktop user, apple scares me