Advice?: Production Setup for Under-Privileged Youth

[mixyguy2]

First, huge props in general for what you're doing! To your points:

1. I would like to start them off on a fully functioning DAW like Ableton Lite /Bitwig 8-track, rather than a program designed to make making music as easy as possible, which ends up slowing the potential for growth.

I disagree. Just being introduced to all these terms and techniques and equipment is overwhelming enough...and you want to make it harder? Use GarageBand if you can, if not, go with Mixcraft, which is often called "the PC version of GarageBand" because it's so intuitive and easy to use. Let them walk before then run or you may turn off a lot of kids who just want to have fun making music, not have "more homework."

I'd like to introduce midi packs, drawing in midi, soft-synths, hard synths? - microphone placement, keyboards, at first locked to scales, pads, quantization... etc etc as they are ready for each new piece.

Again, walk before they run. Most of that I wouldn't start out with! Hit the basics first, stuff like:

- What's a DAW
- What's a plugin and diff types, mostly:
-- VIs
-- Effects
- What's a track
- What's an arpeggiator
- Audio vs MIDI
- Some very basic synth and synth controls intro (what's an osc, what's the "envelope" etc)

If you're focusing on EDM, I wouldn't even get into gear much as they don't really need mics, interfaces, etc. A keyboard and PC is all they really need. But if you're trying to go broader, than that's a diff story...

3. I would like to find the most user-friendly VST's that still allow for decent interaction.

Some synths aimed right at EDM IMO include Superwave's synths - you really want to check. A lot of stuff perfect for EDM and SUPER cheap: https://www.superwavesynths.com/ GR-8 also (free): https://www.kvraudio.com/product/gr-8-by-phuturetone

Good luck!

[Uncle E]

Someone just posted about MPC Beats in another thread, it might be perfect:

https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-beats

[mgiambro]

I would recommend MuLab for this.

https://www.mutools.com/

It's fun, easy to use and has everything you need to make tracks. It's similar to Bitwig, but a lot cheaper. Also the developer is very helpful and always available on the KVR MuTools forum:

viewforum.php?f=79.

[ztrauq]

I've done some work on a project that's tangentially related (setting up audio editing and podcasting for volunteers at a community radio station). Not sure a lot of what we used would help due to being more focused on effects and editing talk shows and podcasts, but it did give me an opportunity to try most of the free/almost-free DAWs out there.

The one that I've converged on at this point is Waveform Free (https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveform-free) for a couple of reasons: one, it's one of the few free options that isn't restricted to X number of tracks or plugins loaded at once, so you can use it for just about any size of project. The other thing is that it manages to be both full-featured but also has a pretty easy to understand workflow: most everything is on one screen, connecting plugins together is very logical and straightforward, and for me at least the workflow is pretty easy to pick up.

I'm not sure if it would be the best if you want to concentrate on loop-based as I don't think it has the clip mode like Live or Bitwig do, but it might be worth looking at. Plus, like Bitwig it also has a Linux-compatible version along with Mac and Windows, so if they wanted to install it at home it should work with a wide variety of computers (haven't tried Waveform yet, but I did get Bitwig running on an old laptop restored with a Linux installation).

[ralfrobert]

+1 for Mulab. You should just contact Jo, the developer behind it, outline what you want to do and see if you can come to an agreement. It is reasonably priced, gives you a lot and is fun.

Loops can be acquired for very little money or for free.

As for synths, Fullbucket comes to mind. Free, high quality, well maintained.

[ralfrobert]

And here you can get raw materials for loop based production:

https://cymatics.fm/pages/immortal-beta

Freebies all the time, including a 3 GB starter and the beta pack you can use right away.

[El°HYM]

I would recommend MuLab for this.

https://www.mutools.com/

It's fun, easy to use and has everything you need to make tracks. It's similar to Bitwig, but a lot cheaper. Also the developer is very helpful and always available on the KVR MuTools forum:

viewforum.php?f=79.

+1 for MuLab.

[pugilistas]

You know, years ago I worked at a residential facility for children where we had a great pyschiatrist in charge. When asked how to deal with a situation that wasn't covered by the standart rules, he said, 'What we are trying to instill here is memories of success for the kids. Anything you do, that's your goal.'

Sounds like you are doing a good job there!

[saint_william]

Hello, all

Thank you all for your input. I'm sorry I've not been joining in the conversation. I've actually been familiarizing myself with FL studios and getting things set up, all from the suggestions here. So again thank you. Also, FL Studio BROKE my brain for the first hour!

What's interesting is that I am now going to be potentially working with kids who have considerably lower capacity than I had first anticipated.

Along with this program, I am setting up a podcasting program for my church and adapting the configuration on Reaper to be as absolute barebones as possible for our volunteers. I'll have them download Reaper and set them up with this configuration and boom they will be good to go plugins and all.

It strikes me that I could do the same for these kiddos... make Reaper super simple in its menus and have more complex things available one level deeper.

Does anyone see a downside to this? I am still considering FL Studios and just took a look at Mulab and it seems interesting as well - the thing with FL is that it really is the DAW of the teens so...

So i guess a question could be :
Reaper with Simplified Configuration vs Ableton vs Non-FL-Linear Daw ?

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I have gone and downloaded and sorted a few gigs of loops to get them started from the loops above and that's actually been a lot of fun as I've done some test tracks to get to know the best workflow for pure loop-based production.

Thanks again everyone - this has been a super helpful conversation thus far!

[Uncle E]

FL

With my own young kids, I can say that pianos, synths, vocoders, drum pads, and drums are big hits. No interest in guitar, bass, or ukulele. No interest in sequencers at all, including Maschine and MPC. Arpeggiators are good.

[sjm]

To me FL Studio vs Reaper really boils down to what you are planning on doing (and what you think the kids might do with this knowledge too).

Reaper makes the whole "live recording" workflow a lot easier. If you're planning on mainly recording vocals, guitars, live drums etc. it's a lot less fiddly than FL Studio for all of those things. I'm presuming this is also the use case for the church - they're unlikely to be making EDM and trap bangers using the mouse.

FL Studio makes the whole "piano roll hero" side of things a lot easier. I think this is partly why it's so popular among a certain demographic. You don't need any external instruments, you don't need to be able to develop those skills in order to create anything halfway decent. It has far and away the best piano roll for programming parts in.

So if the kids are going to be entering stuff with the mouse - this may be especially relevant if they have access to computers outside of class, but no access to instruments - FL Studio would get my vote. If you are looking more to get them to record their vocals, maybe learn some basic keys, bang along on some percussion etc. then Reaper will have the better workflow for that.

The reason I personally use FL Studio rather than Reaper is that for all the hoops that FL Studio makes you jump through when working with external gear - and there are many - the piano roll simply saves me a few hours when it comes to programming parts. All my drums are programmed, and sometimes I program other instruments too. You lose 5-10 seconds per live take, but make it all up with the hours saved on programming the drums. I wouldn't do this if I could record live drums; then I'd use Reaper. That should give you an idea of how different workflows call for different tools.

Both are cheap and cheerful, but Reaper has the steeper overall learning curve because of the obtuse UI and the "everything is possible, but you need to configure it and set it up yourself" mentality. That's great for power users, not so great for the uninitiated trying to get results in their first hour. You can probably mitigate that by guiding them through the process and providing a template.

So it's all down to what the plan is. Are the kids supposed to be able to learn to make their own music on their own time without access to (expensive) hardware? Then FL Studio, because of the piano roll. Are you trying to get them interested in playing an actual instrument, and doing live recordings? Then Reaper. I do think you need to answer this question to get more insightful replies.

I can't comment on Ableton - it never clicked with me. But I'd discount it - and all other linear DAW options apart from Bandlab - for the simple reason that you will just end up pricing the kids out of being able to use the software outside of class. Do consider the massive benefits that would come from them being able to take the skills they learn from you home and develop their chops that way. That requires something that is affordable, not a few hundred bucks (and paid updaets every few years). With either Reaper or FL, they can get by with free for quite some time. Reaper is unrestricted in trial mode; FL Studio has a very generous trial mode that you can work around if they bring their projects in to class, and you save the projects using the licensed version. This is explicitly allowed and encouraged btw.

[saint_william]

To me FL Studio vs Reaper really boils down to what you are planning on doing (and what you think the kids might do with this knowledge too).

The goal, at its very basic level, is to get these kids to do something creative. [Rabbit Trail below] I don't think I need to expound on the value of creativity here. Suffice it to say, these kids haven't been given the space or opportunity to be creative in their upbringing.

A more DAW-oriented answer is to give them a space to make something and see that they are capable of creating. Recording vocals and guitar is less a priority. Whereas making simple creative choices like, do I like this drum beat or that one, this bass line or that one, this pad or that one over that bass line... etc etc. To start with...

This leads pretty clearly to FL I suppose. Because when it comes to leveling up and drawing in a bass line the piano roll in Reaper is just not as good.

With my own young kids, I can say that pianos, synths, vocoders, drum pads, and drums are big hits. No interest in guitar, bass, or ukulele. No interest in sequencers at all, including Maschine and MPC. Arpeggiators are good.

This is very helpful again,

When you say no interest in sequencers... I'm sorry... I know what I think a sequencer is, but what are you referring to that they have no interest in?
- The click every 4th button to make the kick and every 8 for the snare?
- This means that you are saying, as you said before, keep it tactile. An akai keyboard with some pads would be ideal.
- My concern here is the kids go home and get GAS as mentioned. (But then, so does adding VSTs like Playbeat. Hmmmm)

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[Rabbit trail]
I have had very good success with getting kids who do not do homework to write stories AND EDIT THEM BY HAND (using his newly inked fountain pen!) using chatGPT and Dalle2. I know the ethical implications of this are out in the future. But these particular kids have been using it already, and I want to help with "better" use of it.

After I formatted the initial output into a double-spaced editing draft, one of them spent 45 minutes straight going through and making content changes. This is a kid who did not do a one page review on a TV show even though I talked him through it AND wrote out the outline!

Another story: after I laid it out in Google docs with the images and background one kiddo engaged with my choice of font and we spent half an hour discussing why which font worked best. This is a kiddo who did not even say hi on our first hang.

All that to say, using something they are already using to deepen engagement and creativity and show how the AI is a tool itself - a means to an end, not the end itself. Will the future prove me wrong? I dunno, but I'd like them not to be cranking out papers using this stuff without it being viewed critically first.

[simmo75]

I worked with homeless youth and Ableton were amazingly helpful, they ended up donating Live to the students. Seriously, reach out to them explain your plan and provide as much evidence as possible.
Good luck, the world needs more people like you!

[Uncle E]

When you say no interest in sequencers... I'm sorry... I know what I think a sequencer is, but what are you referring to that they have no interest in?

They have no interest in anything that plays the music for them. They want to play it themselves. They like arpeggiators because it’s still them playing. They like having lots of sounds but have no interest in tweaking the sounds themselves. They like music games like Melodics. They love banging away on drums.

It should be easy to get people to donate hardware keyboards. Anything with USB will work instantly, and anything with MIDI will work with a $30 USB interface.

[sjm]

Yeah, getting basic hardware like keyboards for the classes should be easy. Cheap and cheeful MIDI gear has no resale value, so you'll find enough people happy to have you take stuff of their hands for free - especially for a good cause.