KVR Audio

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:28 pm

Hello,
I hope some folks are willing to take the time
(no time ? then please check below: ....vs. Cubase 12 ....)

- i could have cubase 12 for a good crossgrade price. 215.-, thats not so bad.

- i own several DAWs, but: can´t gel with any of them !!
- my MAIN task is: to patch within GigPerformer (Host) for realtime -play patches.
this will remain so !

So far, i´m only into Live 11, but it has a huge latency. HUGE loading times.
And can only load one project. Live11 is in the long run not for me.
and i *hate* the midi editor. and am unfamiliar with the arrange view.

Overall:
=> its allways small things that make me hate a DAW ( vs. editing)
And i find all of them unlogic in one way or the other.
In Bitwig, i fall out of the race vs. midi mapping with my controllers

i was much into cubase 5 ! this was perfect for me.
Then came Cubase SX, and i was nolonger at home.....stopped using it.
stopped -back then- fiddling with DAWs completly !

Today:
- i want to record piano (Audio), ideally without any fixed tempo.
deriving tempo tracks out of it, or even working without any grid. ( no clue)
- i wanto to record midi ( my playing) with fixed tempo. ( i need a good and intuitiv midi editor / pianoroll)
- I *need* to run a DAW in parallel to my pluginHost of choice, Gigperformer.
So, i need something that is good vs. latencys ! (ableton is -imho- not), and something that runs stable on a mac. ( ventura)

- I HAVE to decide on a DAW !
(i need to learn to produce !!!.....i´m a (realtime-play) sounddesign specialist otherwise)

- from the feature set, i would need to have to take cubase pro. (not a limited one)

vs. Cubase 12
What do you folks think -reading here- :
- is cubase good and logic in workflow ? (compared to others: Studio1, BW, logic, Live**)
( live was the only one i found the workflow intuitiv / ** i own these 4)

- how good is it to get into working with nonlinear time, derived from audio recordings, compared to other DAWs ?
- how good is the audio editing today ?
also: it seems i can connect it to wavelab ( which i have)
- how good is it at realtime playing vs. latencys ? ( Mac, fast TB3 AI )

my feel says, i should try, then i have them all.
Bevore i just can´t know which one is for me.
just: the funds.

talk me in ? talk me out ?

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:47 pm

Cubase excels at tempo detection for audio and MIDI.

In Cubase Pro you can select an audio clip and go to Project | Tempo Detection ... and from there you can Analyze the file and have Cubase create a tempo track.

Not sure how easy it is in Logic or Studio One.

$215 is a steal for Cubase 12. Cubase and Bitwig are my main tools so I'm biased, but I'd recommend you go with Cubase for what you're up to.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:53 pm

Just stick with one DAW and learn it well, then you will "gel" with it after time. The problem nowadays is that all DAWs are so good!

Cubase runs better in Mac (in my case), but others run well too. I have M1 mini mac with Ventura and I have Logic, Cubase, Live and S1 installed. I like all of them but using mostly Live 11 these days because I like the simplicity of it, but I do use the others sometimes and have no problem using anyone of them .

Anyway, both Cubase and Logic have tempo detection, so they can detect the tempo of your recording. So, I would choose one of them if I were recording from my midi instrument without setting the tempo prior to that.

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:42 pm

billcarroll wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:47 pm Cubase excels at tempo detection for audio and MIDI.

In Cubase Pro you can select an audio clip and go to Project | Tempo Detection ... and from there you can Analyze the file and have Cubase create a tempo track.

sounds convincing. and you´ve not mentioned any sort of drawbacks

Thanks Bill !

EnGee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:53 pm Just stick with one DAW and learn it well, then you will "gel" with it after time.

thats exactly my thinking sheme too.
my initial thought was: ok, take cubase too, ...since the crossgrad IS a steel now.
*then* "you" (I) have them all, ....then finally start to decide,......which one it HAS to be.

EnGee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:53 pm Cubase runs better in Mac (in my case),

interesting ! i heard normally just the contrary !
me too: macMini / Ventura.
Thank you too !

i had very bad experiences with steinberg.
thats what made me so hesitant

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:38 pm

Well, on my PC (Ryzen + nVidia) Cubase definitely needs 256 or 512 buffer. Latency becomes noticeable then, but on my Mac I can run it fine with 128 buffer. So, I suspect the nVidia/Cubase combo is the reason. I don't know.

Live also runs better on my Mac while S1 might be better on Windows (it still runs great on Mac M1 native). I also have Reason 12 on my PC (waiting for the native M1 to install on my Mac). I run Reason with only its devices, so you can't beat it for stability and performance this way!

Let's not forget Logic Pro on Mac! It's great! It has the best bundle of instruments and effects (tie with Ableton Live Suite for me). For $200 it is a no brainer choice. I thought to be my only choice, but well ... I'm more comfortable with Cubase (I use it since SX/SL days).

Anyway, if I must choose only one DAW, it must be Ableton Live! It is because of its simplicity and excellent workflow. I also purchased Novation Lunchkey MK3 midi keyboard and it integrates best with Live (Cubase is second). Although still I use mouse/keyboards shortcuts as my main tools in Live, the Lunchkey is an excellent help in composing and to "gel" with Live.

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:26 pm

ok, i think i will jump.

i have one question open:
Cubase 12, is it a "one machine" lizence or multi machine, how many ?

( i understand that its possible to activae/deactivate lizences)

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:26 pm

I have it activated on two computers, one is Windows 11 and the other is Mac. I don't know how many machines you can activate it on though.

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:38 pm

Funky40 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:26 pm ok, i think i will jump.

i have one question open:
Cubase 12, is it a "one machine" lizence or multi machine, how many ?

( i understand that its possible to activae/deactivate lizences)

three computers at any one time

https://www.steinberg.net/licensing/

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:53 pm

billcarroll wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:38 pm three computers at any one time

https://www.steinberg.net/licensing/

ahh, i overlooked that part ( i surched there)
Wow, i´d not expected that. so, Good News ! I´m in

Thanks Bill and EnGee !

musicproducerdee · Post by **musicproducerdee** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:34 pm

Cubase 12 Pro is a DAW that can do it all. Although I think that the workflow is a little dated. But feature rich nonetheless.

I think PreSonus Studio One is everything Cubase was supposed to mature into. It's still not as feature loaded as Cubase, but I'm sure it will get there with time. PreSonus is good at updating the DAW. Their UI elements are also up to date with a more modern workflow in time.

Ableton Live is great. Bring out the inner creative in me. But I agree with the loading times.

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:32 am

musicproducerdee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:34 pm .......But feature rich nonetheless.

there was a time, when this was the BIG drawback vs. a non-pro !

its the dilemma to chose between the "new and fresh - good workflow/ but lacking in details", or "the old and cluttered / beeing behind vs. fluffi workflow".
YEah, Live won so far.
but i hate the midi and audio editor. (ohh, and i had/have quite some crashes / M1mac)
Even old Live has many basic functionality Details just not donne, not finished.

its like adding horsepower to a new car, using that feature for PR,
over and over again,
but never optimise the geartrain for real live street scenarios.

...and all car builders would do same. Thats how the whole thing looks to me.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:53 pm

I disabled Asio Guard (on both systems) as I don't need this extra latency. Cubase instruments are few but great! I like a lot Retrologue and GA. Padshop is also a great synth

In general I'm happy and inspired with any of those DAWs (Cubase, Logic or Live). I'm trying to narrow it to those 3 DAWs and concentrate on Cubase/Live more, so I don't have gazillion projects scattered here and there

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:03 pm

I watched this video from Dom Sigalas vs. "free unsynced playing"

now i´m quite a bit pre- excited !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5AZ8fecXLw

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:10 pm

Funky40 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:03 pm I watched this video from Dom Sigalas vs. "free unsynced playing"

now i´m quite a bit pre- excited !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5AZ8fecXLw

Dom is always excited too

and he does some great videos.

Also check out the Club Cubase livestreams with Greg Ondo. You can ask questions there too.

https://www.youtube.com/@Cubase/search? ... b%20Cubase

_leras · Post by **_leras** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:28 pm

billcarroll wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:47 pm Cubase excels at tempo detection for audio and MIDI.

In Cubase Pro you can select an audio clip and go to Project | Tempo Detection ... and from there you can Analyze the file and have Cubase create a tempo track.

Not sure how easy it is in Logic or Studio One.

$215 is a steal for Cubase 12. Cubase and Bitwig are my main tools so I'm biased, but I'd recommend you go with Cubase for what you're up to.

I'm also using Cubase and Bitwig and agree with all of the above.

I love Bitwig, but for your us case I think cubase would be slightly better. It's got great built in tools and is excellent for recording.

Cubase 12, should i buy it ? [Solved ! btw. ] .....some questions ( i can´t really gel with any DAW)