Art Vista Orchestra Intonation System

[Hans Adamson]

Thanks for the explanation, Hans.

So your system is using Just tuning for roots, and then tuning 3rds and 5ths relative to the chord root?

What about 7ths, etc? Are those tuned by ratio to the key, or do they use dynamic tuning?

Does it distinguish between the Major Tone and Minor Tone? What about the Grave Seventh and Harmonic Seventh?

What are the conditions that would make it choose any of the above?

And finally, how are augmented 4ths and diminished 5ths dealt with? Are they always ±10 cents, 17 cents, or 31 cents? Is the tuning fixed, or dynamic?

"So your system is using Just tuning for roots, and then tuning 3rds and 5ths relative to the chord root?"

No the system is dynamic, and it is not striving for Just Intonation, but for consonance and melodic direction. It makes the same intonation decisions a live musician would do in the context of the music and in the relation to the musicians around him.

/Hans

[jamcat]

OK, so the chord roots are not re-tuned from equal temperament, but all chord tones above the root are tuned to a ratio of the root?

This would still be using Just intonation for the ratios, correct?

Is the tritone left as exactly 600 cents?

[Hans Adamson]

OK, so the chord roots are not re-tuned from equal temperament, but all chord tones above the root are tuned to a ratio of the root?

This would still be using Just intonation for the ratios, correct?

Is the tritone left as exactly 600 cents?

"OK, so the chord roots are not re-tuned from equal temperament, but all chord tones above the root are tuned to a ratio of the root?"

No, this is not correct. What you are describing is the Hermode Tuning which has nothing in common with ARPI (Automatic Real-time Performance Intonation"). ARPI does not rely on a fixed 12 tone octave for the roots, just like no violinist in an orchestra would play that way. Also, when thirds are played in harmony (chords) they are intonated with pure tuning in relation to the root.

/Hans

[jamcat]

So ARPI is aware of the key and re-tunes scale intervals to Pythagorean tuning?
Does it detect key changes/modulation?

[Hans Adamson]

So ARPI is aware of the key and re-tunes scale intervals to Pythagorean tuning?
Does it detect key changes/modulation?

ARPI is a very complex set of algorithms to re-create the intonation practices of an orchestra musician. I understand this is a very interesting subject matter, but am going to keep some trade secrets to myself. All I can say is that an orchestra playing back solely pure just tuning would sound awful - in my opinion. Depending on the material of course, if a music piece consists of one single chord without voicings etc, yes, then it would sound great.

[jamcat]

How many instruments does it support at once?

I use SWAM solo instruments to create entire sections, so it can get very high.

Can it access SWAM's micro tuning?

[Hans Adamson]

How many instruments does it support?

I use SWAM solo instruments to create entire sections. Can it access SWAM's micro tuning?

There is no limit to the number of instruments that can be intonated, but there is a limit to the number of MIDI channels as the processing is on one MIDI port, so 16 MIDI channels are supported.

I am not familiar with SWAM instruments. Any MIDI sound source that support individual tuning of note events has a potential of becoming compatible, as the intonation data is sent in MIDI. As of today the only sampler that is compatible is Kontakt.

/Hans

[jamcat]

SWAM is not a sampler. They are physically modeled orchestral instruments.

www.audiomodeling.com

Please reach out to them and see if you can get supported. They are pretty good about that.

[Hans Adamson]

SWAM is not a sampler. They are physically modeled orchestral instruments.

www.audiomodeling.com

Please reach out to them and see if you can get supported. They are pretty good about that.

Thanks for the suggestion! Appreciated.

/Hans

[jamcat]

Be aware that each solo instrument is a different VST instance. So this is not just MIDI channels within a single sampler plugin.

Will that be a problem?

[Hans Adamson]

Be aware that each solo instrument is a different VST instance. So this is not just MIDI channels within a single sampler plugin.

Will that be a problem?

No, that's no problem. The Intonator VST3 is loaded on a track in the DAW and provides intonation data to all instruments in the DAW.

/Hans

[jamcat]

And you only need a single intonator VST plugin to control the tuning of 80+ VST instruments in real-time?

Also, you will be supporting Apple Silicon natively?

[jamcat]

One other thing… I’d really like a natural pitch variation option. Something that could be turned on that would replicate slight variations in pitch between players in a group. Perhaps even with a “skill level” parameter.

I imagine the initial pitch may vary a little more, and then the players quickly gravitate towards a central pitch. Perhaps your research on the topic has brought you some insight that could be applied.

When I’m doing a string section with 25 to 50 players, it’s very tedious to put little pitch variations in for each player by hand. And difficult to make it sound natural.

To have this automated would be a game changer.

[Hans Adamson]

This would probably be more useful in physical modeling instruments as the sampled instruments often have degree of "built-in" "humanization". It would be possible to implement a cents or so deviation that would be set by the user on individual instruments on the same MIDI channel, but that deviation would be static as the change tuning parameter for a note is applied at the onset. Maybe there is way to add programming for a pitch bend back to unison tuning after a user defined time. It could be possible. And yes 80 instruments are OK. The intonator will still only deal with the 16 MIDI channels within one port.

[Hans Adamson]

On reflection I would believe that an initial deviation from a perfect unison pitch and then correction would sound more amateurish than a professional performance, but musicians may still have a slight chorusing within their instrument group. After all, they are not digitally tuned. But I always believed that the human ear is more sensitive to pitch than any digital meter. Maybe all you need is slightly different harmonics to each violin to give each instrument individual character and sound more like a group than a super giant version of the same instrument.

/Hans