KVR Audio

lotus2035 · Post by **lotus2035** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:40 am

liquidsound wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:02 am Has anyone noticed their middle finger got longer?

All you can do is Wave back.

Leo1999 · Post by **Leo1999** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:57 am

I received almost every day an email from Waves about sales. But Waves didnt have the decency to send an email telling about completely different policy in time.
No transparency = no Waves any more.

Waves know how to put somebody off.
Great job!

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 am

Excuse for me for asking this, and I am being genuine in asking this, not attempting to stoke anyone's anger, but my feelings about WUP aside (I've kind of learned to just deal with it,) has Waves said anywhere that it is not going to honor an individual's WUP until the end of the time period one paid for? When Waves Central updated today, yes, it had a notice about Creative Access, but all my products were still listed and shown to be activated.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:07 am

dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 am Excuse for me for asking this, and I am being genuine in asking this, not attempting to stoke anyone's anger, but my feelings about WUP aside (I've kind of learned to just deal with it,) has Waves said anywhere that it is not going to honor an individual's WUP until the end of the time period one paid for?

Their FAQ says they will cover updates to any active WUP. after that you have to sub.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:15 am

plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:07 am
dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 am Excuse for me for asking this, and I am being genuine in asking this, not attempting to stoke anyone's anger, but my feelings about WUP aside (I've kind of learned to just deal with it,) has Waves said anywhere that it is not going to honor an individual's WUP until the end of the time period one paid for?
Their FAQ says they will cover updates to any active WUP. after that you have to sub.

Thanks much! I guess I'll deal with it when I get there (I think that's August.) There's not much to worry about until then, and it's possible a lot could change.

I'm assuming that all the plugins will continue to work after that, but we'll just not get updates, right? It's not like they can pull the plug on the use of plugins for which one legitimately has a perpetual license.

Has there been a discussion of cost of Creative Access relative to what the WUP costs?

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:42 am

dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:15 am
plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:07 am
dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 am Excuse for me for asking this, and I am being genuine in asking this, not attempting to stoke anyone's anger, but my feelings about WUP aside (I've kind of learned to just deal with it,) has Waves said anywhere that it is not going to honor an individual's WUP until the end of the time period one paid for?
Their FAQ says they will cover updates to any active WUP. after that you have to sub.
Thanks much! I guess I'll deal with it when I get there (I think that's August.) There's not much to worry about until then, and it's possible a lot could change.

I'm assuming that all the plugins will continue to work after that, but we'll just not get updates, right? It's not like they can pull the plug on the use of plugins for which one legitimately has a perpetual license.

Has there been a discussion of cost of Creative Access relative to what the WUP costs?

Okay, I found out what I'd be paying. I pay annually, so I'd save on two months worth of subscription for starters. It's roughly what I pay now for my WUP (unless I get in on one of the rare sales that included the price of the WUP.) I don't know that I'd DL many more plugins, maybe a few, but really, not many. So, I guess for me, it's kind of a nonissue. For those with only a few plugins, this is pretty bad.

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:51 am

dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:42 am Okay, I found out what I'd be paying. I pay annually, so I'd save on two months worth of subscription for starters. It's roughly what I pay now for my WUP (unless I get in on one of the rare sales that included the price of the WUP.)

I'm the same boat. Getting a new WUP would cost me the same as a yearly subscription. But it forces you to get a new 'WUP"/sub every year.

JS_SEA · Post by **JS_SEA** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:08 am

Is there a reason why Waves didn't give any detailed information beforehand to clients?

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:13 am

plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:38 am
Ah_Dziz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:35 am I'm gonna have a nice long talk with someone at waves. It's a damn shame that they think that this is a sound business idea. If I ran a standard commercial studio for post production or something then the subscription idea might make a small amount of sense, but I don't and I will not be updating my many many many waves products unless they roll this dumb shit back. I've been using waves since V4 and I like their stuff just fine, but I can't ever support a move like this financially. I'll leave my plugins as they are and start phasing out the use of any waves gear moving forward. Hopefully the personal studio market won't cave to this idiocy and they will either fail as a company switch back to a semi reasonable business model.
To be honest, I would prefer Waves disappear. If that means they keep the sub only and deal with their dumbass shackled pro customers, that's great. As long as they stay out of my life. I am happy to see them go away in any way possible. Especially after this move. If they decide to back track, doesn't matter, they are a dead company to me and they should be for you too. Give your money to devs who care and make great products, not Wave who are a bloated marketing dinosaur with mediocre products.

In principal I tend to agree, but in practice, I value my 20 years of mixing and producing with waves plugins. Every idiot company is going to try this (it is a great model from their standpoint as it pays them for nothing) if they are anywhere near big enough and refusing to support this move is enough for me. I'll still be using the many waves plugins I use, but I won't spend a penny on a subscription from waves or any other company. If this tanks the company, that's what they get. If they realize that their customers don't want to support this bullshit and do a 180 then I'm fine with that as well. Their update plan was idiotic but completely voluntary and unnecessary so I never had an issue with it. I have updated twice in my whole career.
I will be actively discouraging anyone from using any waves plugins for the foreseeable future though. There isn't anything in their catalog that doesn't exist elsewhere in at least the same level of quality. I'm just familiar with their stuff and any studio I happen into also has their stuff.... Or did. I'd love to see this bite them in the ass in a major way. It would serve as a great lesson for every other developer out there.

JS_SEA · Post by **JS_SEA** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:18 am

@Ah Dziz
I can assure I dont intend to use or support Waves any more.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:20 am

dlandis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 am Excuse for me for asking this, and I am being genuine in asking this, not attempting to stoke anyone's anger, but my feelings about WUP aside (I've kind of learned to just deal with it,) has Waves said anywhere that it is not going to honor an individual's WUP until the end of the time period one paid for? When Waves Central updated today, yes, it had a notice about Creative Access, but all my products were still listed and shown to be activated.

Nothing has changed for plugins that were registered. Even unregistered plugins will probably be handled by waves on a case by case basis. Basically this is just a shitty business model for consumers. I love my waves plugins but I won't spend a penny with them for a subscription. Or anyone else. I'll keep my thousands of dollars worth of waves software running on my system for backwards compatibility and ease of use and since I'm on windows I don't have any compatibility issues to worry about. I won't even bother to look at anything else from them moving forward.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:23 am

JS_SEA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:08 am Is there a reason why Waves didn't give any detailed information beforehand to clients?

I think that the type of the information is such that no matter how it's presented, it's always going to feel something like a broadside when one first hears of it. It's kind of the nature of the beast. It probably doesn't help the delivery that Waves has been using the WUP model for(almost)ever.

I think Waves Native Power Pack was the first plugin I ever bought. I remember that they had some cartoon guy standing on the cover of the packaging looking pleased with himself holding a box....

It was probably a million years ago or so.

JS_SEA · Post by **JS_SEA** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:28 am

If you bought a new computer, could you transfer old licences to it or would you have to sub?

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:40 am

plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:11 am I created this google doc to keep track of Waves product alternative. Feel free to contribute and share...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I’ve got a bunch of Waves plugins, some, like F6, that I use constantly, but to be perfectly honest, there’s not a single one that is so crucial to my work that I’d pay even $15 dollar a month for.

I’m not sure where these companies are going with this. When HBO charges me per month, I expect to turn on my TV every damn day and see something on there that interests me. When I don’t see it, I turn off the subscription. Plain and simple. But plugins are not that. The last time I paid Adobe for Photoshop was CS6, the last year it was available to buy. I constantly speak to people who tell me that they’re the same. So, while my employer pays for my CS license, how many updates from people like me have they lost? I tried Roland Cloud for a while, and frankly found that I wasn’t using their plugins all that much, and when I was using them, I had to annoyingly sign in to a server that was often down. So I got perpetual licenses for the ones I did use, and that’s that.

It’s not even a matter of money as much as it is my hating of the concept. Microsoft wants me to subscribe to their game service. Adobe wants me to subscribe to their graphics programs. Autodesk wants me to subscribe to their 3d graphics programs, Waves, Roland… where does it end? Do I have to pay $1000 a month to use all the software I enjoy? If I get laid off and can’t make the payments, that’s it? I can’t use the software that I rented years? F that.

My money is going to developers who release great stuff, charge a fair price, and if they want me to upgrade, they offer me something that is exciting. Look at Arturia. Every damn time they do another V Collection or FX collection, they put in something damn juicy in it and I’m there. Maybe it’s the same cost that a full year of an Arturia subscription might be, but I don’t care. I buy it and I have it, even if things get tight and I can’t afford a monthly payment.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:43 am

JS_SEA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:08 am Is there a reason why Waves didn't give any detailed information beforehand to clients?

I just checked and I didn’t get an email about it until today when they said perpetual licenses were over. Not a peep about updating what I had, which oddly I was about to do in April, as I do every year… except not this one or any other ones.

Waves abandon perpetual licenses and WUP