Supersynths

[Jac459]

If I go back to my definition of supersynth (which is highly debatable).
I think I need to add the arpegiator/midi player part.

1 - All major type of synthesis.
2 - Large number of sound engines.
3 - Large number of modulations.
4 - Large number of effects.
5 - Large number of routing options / semi modular / modular.
6 - Strong ecosystem of sound banks.
7 - Rich arpegiators, midi players...

Then in this definition supersynth doesn't mean "synth that I love for this or that characteristic" but more "synth that has all features and does them well".

In this context Falcon remain strong with a lot of players (even physical simulation players), bitwig definitely good also, Avenger of course too (but I am not familiar with this specific part, I just know it exists). Pigments is a bit better than Phase Plant, phase plant is super basic for apregiator/players...

[twal]

Most fantastic synths have most of what is mentioned here, but to me it has to have a strong multi-sampling function, without that you can't make such sounds. With something like MSoundfactory it can have the strongest amount of options to make "any sound you want" but at that point, you are just pushing the boundaries of sound design, and not designing for the sake of music making- for the most part; and this is the other side of the spectrum and one kind of sacrifice if you are not fond of its workflow. Phase Plant, Synthmaster 2, and Pigments fall in the "second category" so to speak but get love for their sound/workflow and support. This is just my understanding thus far. I assume my curiosity falls on the fact that at some point, you want to seriously use multi-sampling with open-ended features (large amount of avenues to take in the synth). That's all I can think of right now.

EDIT: Oh, another point I want to make is that I think at some point most people will want to focus on a few things that have a lot of capabilities, rather than many things that are good at specific things- of course there is trade off but I think generally speaking this will become truer than not imho.

[Jac459]

Most fantastic synths have most of what is mentioned here, but to me it has to have a strong multi-sampling function, without that you can't make such sounds. With something like MSoundfactory it can have the strongest amount of options to make "any sound you want" but at that point, you are just pushing the boundaries of sound design, and not designing for the sake of music making- for the most part; and this is the other side of the spectrum and one kind of sacrifice if you are not fond of its workflow. Phase Plant, Synthmaster 2, and Pigments fall in the "second category" so to speak but get love for their sound/workflow and support. This is just my understanding thus far. I assume my curiosity falls on the fact that at some point, you want to seriously use multi-sampling with open-ended features (large amount of avenues to take in the synth). That's all I can think of right now.

I agree with you that multi sampling should be present but on the other hand i believe multisampling will become more and more obsolete with the progress of physical modeling.... or maybe that's just wishful thinking....

EDIT: Oh, another point I want to make is that I think at some point most people will want to focus on a few things that have a lot of capabilities, rather than many things that are good at specific things- of course there is trade off but I think generally speaking this will become truer than not imho.

You are certainly true but i think i am the opposite. I like to see my synths as a set of tools with specialities. Phase Plant for growling bass, twin 3 for subtractive synthesis, novum for drones falcon for complex sounds, and so on. It is a bit artificial, you could make drones with phase plant... but that's the fun of it....

[Korg Supporter]

Blue Cat's PatchWork just got updated, and you can now oversample plugins! I love PatchWork simply because you can layer plugins and chain FX in parallel inside DAWs that don't support such features. You can also set up macros that makes automation easier.

Is it like Unify at all?

Yes, but no Polybox

[Jac459]

By the way the more I discover UVI and Falcon, the more I think it as an Hyper synth.
The capacities in terms of sources, effects and modulation are of course crazy, like avenger (or Helion I guess).
But what standout is the power of its architecture! UVI releases super powerfull synths/creative extensions like quadra that brings a whole new level of creativity (at a price).
Even the soundbanks, when other synths offer 4 macros to manipulate the sound (ok, 8 for phase plant), in fact falcon a set of contextualised macros, super fun and versatile to play with....
I am really super impressed. When you see that powerhouse like the drum designer extension or the quadra series are "just" scripts on top of falcon, it is nuts.

Would be great if avenger could do the same...

[E_Anderson]

MSoundFactory just needs faster-to-use modulation (visual cues, target visibility on mouseover/quick link to parameters from mod screen and visa versa)

[Jac459]

Why does MSoundFactory, despite being almost incomparable in terms of power to just about anything besides straight-up programming, feel so bad to use that only a few people are willing to actually use it frequently?

........

The architecture of Falcon and the right-click-to-modulate-anything just make it flat out better to use, period. If you use Phase Plant, it is obvious that the polar perspective on power vs. usability is flawed.

Well, I can't agree more with what you are saying.
An other point is that sounds design has an obvious exploratory part in it. Apart of cases where you try to reproduce a sound you heard (and if you need the power of MSoundFactory for that, it is safe to say that you are f**ked), most of the time, you start from an idea and try to push this idea to new territories. Phase Plant is awesome for that. Twin 3 maybe even more if you are ok to be strictly stuck in substractive synthesis Kingdom.

[HOTF]

[/quote]
Phase Plant is far from what i need,more layers,without more advanced modulation options are pointless - don't know how long mediocre designers showing mediocre 'technique' advertising expencive,but MEDIOCRE synth will generate enough money,but i far from that game already,so i don't need new synth,i need BETER SYNTH :)Cheers
[/quote]

you need ableton or bitgwig you can map infinite modulation to any parameter .I don't know about other DAWS you can probably do that as well. I need to side with bones on this one very complex synth with many layers are annoying most of the time.

[Jac459]

Phase Plant is far from what i need,more layers,without more advanced modulation options are pointless - don't know how long mediocre designers showing mediocre 'technique' advertising expencive,but MEDIOCRE synth will generate enough money,but i far from that game already,so i don't need new synth,i need BETER SYNTH :)Cheers
[/quote]

you need ableton or bitgwig you can map infinite modulation to any parameter .I don't know about other DAWS you can probably do that as well. I need to side with bones on this one very complex synth with many layers are annoying most of the time.
[/quote]

Mmm, I don't think you have tested phase plant since a long time. It even has an "LFO wavetable"... In what world has it "mediocre" modulations...?

[E_Anderson]

The most practical purpose for a huge multi-layered synth is basically to create "multis". Combinations of sounds and textures/rhythms that work well together that basically take some of the work out of "orchestrating" something for the end user, whether that's the person making the patch or the person picking the preset. It's like packaging a whole musical idea in a preset, instead of just an ingredient for one. Or because they provide some feature you don't have from somewhere else, or in a context you needed, or maybe you need to build an entire instrument or library...

For some people that kind of thing matters more than for others. If you're selling presets, it's excellent. If you're making music, you don't need to begin in Reaktor. Some people might anyway.

The most "super" synth for me right now? Anything with feedback routing with an open feedback path. Falcon/MSF/Phase Plant may be super, but... The Grid/VCV/actual modular have this much of an advantage in their scope of sounds.

[Jac459]

The most practical purpose for a huge multi-layered synth is basically to create "multis".

Very interesting perspective.
Reading you, I was thinking of the quadra serie from UVI.
You mix different arpegiated melodies on a specific theme like wood percussion or muted instruments. I really love it.

That being said I am not myself usually a big fan of this multi layering you are mentioning (even if I agree with your point). I guess it also depends of the musical genre you are in.