KVR Audio

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:20 am

noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:12 am What Waves have done is irretrievably broken the contract between a developer and users.

No, they did not broke a contract. If something breaks after macOS update, or if some things do not work on Apple M1, it's legally a macOS and user's problem. Perpetual licenses and updates are only a competitive advantage offered by the developer. In light of possible OS-related update issues even "perpetual license" is a myth (e.g. if developer goes out of business before that OS update). Contractually, only obvious crashes and unsubstantiated marketing claims/dysfunctions are covered.

Trancit · Post by **Trancit** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:28 am

nevermind!
I have to stop discussing...

LFO8 · Post by **LFO8** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:34 am

Sascha Franck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:17 am NOBODY should support those tactics. Imagine if all somewhat bigger plugin companies would do the same. You'd easily end up paying >200 per month. No more options to decide on when and what to update, either. Shafted forever - unless you don't want to load your songs properly ever again.
Something like that should not be supported.

Somehow all the plugin subscription vendors seem to have the delusion that we would want all of their plugins and be fine with using only their plugins.

Whilst in reality (speaking for myself here) the toolbox consists of a carefully curated set of tools by different vendors that I know very well and offer me the exact flavour and way of working that I like. Not some, all you can eat buffet of the same brand that fills up my folder and gives me more to sift through to get to the few plugins I actually use.

Ok, so then I only install the few plugins I use. But wait.. there is just the $25 a month option that has those plugins. So what about my other tools from other vendors? Oh, they have gone the same route? Then on we go paying $25 a month for 1-2 plugins of theirs as well and so on...

Before you know it you'll be racking up a cost of $150-200 a month to use your carefully selected set of tools. Over 2k per annum.. lol. No, I personally don't spend that much on plugins per annum already. Some years can go to maybe $500 and some years $0 as at a certain point I have everything I need and want and can get on with it.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:41 am

Waves didn’t break a legal contract they broke the trust with their users. Getting screwed legally is still getting screwed. We’ve been screwed . I have 85 plugins at version 12 or lower. These will not work natively on the latest Apple silicon if at all They gave no notice and people were buying licenses recently without any notice. I’ve never been this angry with a company. I can’t sell my plugins. Their value once they stop working is zero. You can’t update them to sell them. I’m done with them.

Aleksey Vaneev wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:20 am
noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:12 am What Waves have done is irretrievably broken the contract between a developer and users.
No, they did not broke a contract. If something breaks after macOS update, or if some things do not work on Apple M1, it's legally a macOS and user's problem. Perpetual licenses and updates are only a competitive advantage offered by the developer. In light of possible OS-related update issues even "perpetual license" is a myth (e.g. if developer goes out of business before that OS update). Contractually, only obvious crashes and unsubstantiated marketing claims/dysfunctions are covered.

Niowiad · Post by **Niowiad** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:44 am

Can't say I'm surprised they'd discontinue perpetual licences at some point, but I'm quite surprised there was zero warning.

Vast majority of my licences is v10-11... considering they're likely to be functioning on Windows for several years, I probably would have WUP'd to v14 for GUI scaling and the latest software fixes on those perpetual licences.

But nope, zero warning, which by the way could have gotten them the last $200 WUP money from users like me who are not going to pay for the subscription in any case.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:48 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:20 am
noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:12 am What Waves have done is irretrievably broken the contract between a developer and users.
No, they did not broke a contract. If something breaks after macOS update, or if some things do not work on Apple M1, it's legally a macOS and user's problem. Perpetual licenses and updates are only a competitive advantage offered by the developer. In light of possible OS-related update issues even "perpetual license" is a myth (e.g. if developer goes out of business before that OS update). Contractually, only obvious crashes and unsubstantiated marketing claims/dysfunctions are covered.

Exactly as Scotty says above. I didn't mean legally, but morally as is patently obvious from the posts here and indeed everywhere on the web that discusses such things. They've pulled the rug with zero warning. Production Expert was up to 70 comments yesterday just a few hours after the announcement. 10 is usually a busy day. (91 comments as I type).

That said, I think legally Waves are in trouble in one specific area. All they have promised to current WUP users is that they will be updated to the latest version of v14 ONLY. If v15 is released in July, and someone who bought the WUP in February doesn't get updated, this looks like a legal breaking of contract.

There is an easy out for them though, and I suspect this is their legally-advised plan - no v15 for anyone until March 27, 2024.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:55 am

Someone has set up an online Change petition. Takes under a minute, you can opt out of the Change newsletter when signing.

https://chng.it/2GMzkj47Wh

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:57 am

Leo1999 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:05 am You are talking disrespectfully about capitalism

oh noes! call the FBI!

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:58 am

v1o wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:29 am I blame all the people non stop complaining about WUP. This would have never happened otherwise.

waves forum moderator wrote:Hi Everybody!

Welcome all newcomers to the Waves Forum

My name is Adi and I am a moderator here @ The Waves Forum.

Over the years we received many customer requests to move away from the Waves Update Plan for plugins and bundle updates. Waves Creative Access is the direct response to these requests and provides many additional benefits beyond updates for our customers. The many benefits are listed in the OP above.

We hear the discourse here and want to emphasize a few points:

Waves licenses that you have purchased remain yours. We are not taking them away and will continue to support them.

Moving forward, any new plugins, features, and components will only be added to the subscriptions.
That being said, there is no rush to purchase a subscription until you need a newly released plugin, or to update Waves software to a newer version in order to support a new or updated system.

You can continue to use the plugins and bundle license versions that you own, on systems, operating systems, and host application versions they are compatible with, for as long as needed.

Answers to most questions can be found here:
https://www.waves.com/support/waves-cre ... -questions 2

Any customer who feels wronged can feel free to contact our Inside Sales department 3 to discuss what their options are, we value our customers very much.
We are listening, and appreciate your feedback.

https://forum.waves.com/t/introducing-w ... ss/6850/85

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:01 am

v1o wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:58 amhttps://forum.waves.com/t/introducing-w ... ss/6850/85

Comedy feet stampeding sound effect as everyone runs over there to pile on. (justifiably).

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:06 am

only way is mostly to not support and/or support other companies/devs or just dont use at all. old formula but seems mostly not succesful cause generations change and accept everything step by step.

SHall1000 · Post by **SHall1000** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:14 am

Very interesting “experiment” to go full out subscription. Can’t think of any other dev that has done this. UVI,Roland and Soundwide are still offering perpetual I think.
I wonder how tough it is for devs now with the saturated market and downward pressure on prices.

0degree · Post by **0degree** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:15 am

v1o wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:29 am Waves licenses that you have purchased remain yours. We are not taking them away

Oh, how generous!

Lbdunequest · Post by **Lbdunequest** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:22 am

Waves is shooting themselfs in to foot.

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:27 am

Been thinking about uninstalling all my dozen or so WaveShells and millions of 32+64-bit+Mono+Stereo+VST2+VST3s clogging my C drive - this has been a great catalyst to actually do that and be done with Waves forever. There's nothing they have that I haven't already replaced with other more reliable plugins.

I guess we can no longer sell our Waves licenses either.

Those of us who never trusted Waves, welp, sucks to be right.

Waves abandon perpetual licenses and WUP