A way to handle multi channel midi output from plugins in Ableton Live with BC Connector and Patchwork

[WatchTheGuitar]

So been a raised a few times how annoying it is in Ableton Live that when you output MIDI from a plugin that can produce multi-channel MIDI it all arrives in the receiving track as MIDI channel 1 data, it basically throws away the multi-channel data so if you are using, for example, a sequencer plugin like HY Plugins's excellent HY-SEQ32 and have one track going to MIDI channel 1 and another to MIDI channel 2 you get all those notes from both tracks in MIDI channel 1.

I found a way around this, but it has a CPU hit, it's convoluted and requires owning a couple of paid plugins from BlueCat Audio.

As an example, I have a simple sequence in HY-SEQ32 like this...

sequence_example.png

for the purposes of this I'm ignoring channel 3 and 4 and just looking to grab the output from channel 1 to send to a track with the Korg Arp Odyssey and from channel 2 to a track with the Arturia DX7V.
The setup in Ableton I have is like below

ableton_setup.png

In the first track I have Patchwork and inside Patchwork it is set up as below

ableton_patchwork.png

In Patchwork's right click menu I have set the MIDI output to Port A.

On the BC Connector right click menus I have set the first connector MIDI input to Host channel 1 and Port A channel 1 and MIDI output to host.

On the second BC Connector right click menus I have set the MIDI input to Host channel 2 and Port A channel 2 and MIDI output to host.

Inside each connector in Patchwork I set them to send MIDI only and I choose the Network option, the first connector to port 8080 and the second to port 8081.

ableton_send_conn.png

In Ableton I set up track 2 with a receive connector pointing to network 8080 and it should establish a connection almost straight away

ableton_receive_conn.png

Then for my Arp Odyssey track I set it up on track 3 to receive MIDI from the Track 2 connector.

Same applies to track 4, set up to receive on 8081 and I set up track 5 to receive midi from the Track 4 connector.

All that faff now means when I click run, I hear the discrete channel tracks playing through the right instruments and I didn't have to create separate sequencer plugin instances to do it.
This becomes very useful when using something like the VCV Rack plugin where I might be using half a dozen or more different MIDI outputs from things like Turing machines.

I'm sure there's a way to do something similar with free plugins and if there is please document the process because this is a gaping hole in Ableton's functionality that most other modern DAWs don't have a problem with.

Edit: Someone from BlueCat pointed out you'd probably get much tighter performance if you select App rather than Network as it's all running in Ableton. That's probably going to help, I tend to use network as I also use other things on the network like iPad MIDI.

[WatchTheGuitar]

Oh and forgot to add, it doesn't help Ableton's stability and makes it more likely to crash so save early and often.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Nice tutorial, thanks for mentioning our plug-ins! You may actually be able to get (much) better performance by using the App mode instead of Network if you are running everything in the same application (Live).

[WatchTheGuitar]

You may actually be able to get (much) better performance by using the App mode instead of Network if you are running everything in the same application (Live).

Good point, I tend to use Network a lot because I'm also bringing in MIDI from bluetooth iOS and the like, but yes for Ableton-only hosted stuff it would make sense.

How about releasing a multi channel MIDI Ableton focused plugin for free that throws away all the bits of patchwork and connector that aren't needed to get it to work? Lots of goodwill and maybe some sales if you plug Patchwork and Connector enough! Maybe you could get a few quid from Ableton too.

[Blue Cat Audio]

How about releasing a multi channel MIDI Ableton focused plugin for free that throws away all the bits of patchwork and connector that aren't needed to get it to work? Lots of goodwill and maybe some sales if you plug Patchwork and Connector enough! Maybe you could get a few quid from Ableton too.

I am afraid that would be a great amount of work for a quite specific scenario!

[Tj Shredder]

Though you could almost buy Bitwig for that and would not need a workaround...; - )
On the other hand, those Blue Cat plugins are worth to have anyway… They bridge the closed Apple plugins from Mainstage into my DAW for example…

[SHall1000]

I would like to know why Ableton haven’t fixed this. Is it a fundamental limitation in the way Live is set up/coded or do they not feel it is a big issue. I have several plugins that I cannot use to their full potential.

[Tj Shredder]

How about releasing a multi channel MIDI Ableton focused plugin for free that throws away all the bits of patchwork and connector that aren't needed to get it to work? Lots of goodwill and maybe some sales if you plug Patchwork and Connector enough! Maybe you could get a few quid from Ableton too.

You might be able to cobble something together in M4L with IAC, though I think in M4L you have no direct access to the Midi ports…

Thinking about that, a VST which just routes a Midiport directly into device chain would solve some problems. It should do that by accessing the OS Midi API instead of the Host API. If that is easy, it could solve a lot of problems and could be a simple fun project for Blue Cat. I always wondered why this doesn’t exist…
It might need completely different plugins for each OS though, except for a GUI nothing would be common, but on Windows it could even replace those loopMidi workarounds…

[Tj Shredder]

I would like to know why Ableton haven’t fixed this. Is it a fundamental limitation in the way Live is set up/coded or do they not feel it is a big issue. I have several plugins that I cannot use to their full potential.

Well, Bitwig needed also some years to get it right. I guess Ableton is just some years behind and it might need some severe changes in the underlying engine…

[ben303]

if you want a free solution, it is the exellent Element plugin. It is essentially an alternative to Bidule, and 100% free and cross platform. It's even more flexible than the Bluecat plugin.
https://kushview.net/

[WatchTheGuitar]

if you want a free solution, it is the exellent Element plugin. It is essentially an alternative to Bidule, and 100% free and cross platform. It's even more flexible than the Bluecat plugin.
https://kushview.net/

Could you use Element to have separate tracks in Ableton Live receiving MIDI generated in a multichannel MIDI plugin without needing multiple instances of that plugin?

The point of the solution I outlined was so you could end up with separate MIDI tracks in the DAW that you could record and have, say, a bassline in one track and a lead melody in another. All from just one instance of the MIDI plugin, something like HY-SEQ32 or Chord Potion, which is the plugin I couldn’t get working the way I wanted in Live and sent me on this fool’s errand in the first place.

[ben303]

not sure about exporting midi back - but it can host vsts and the audio outputs are up to 16, so you still use Abletons audio mixer for each vst. The midi channel splitting has to stay within Element. The Blue Cat has two plugins correct? A patchbay one, which is not as poweful as Element, and a router plugin, which does indeed add system wide routing for audio and midi, which Element does not

[WatchTheGuitar]

Ah OK so you'd need to add the plugins into Element and export the audio. Yeah it's not bad, but not what I wanted.
Ideally separate MIDI tracks that could then be edited to do whatever.

My end solution which is much better is to not use Ableton Live with anything multichannel MIDI and I'd just use Reaper as it handles multi channels of MIDI fine and the routing is way way better.