Waves...smh

[Teksonik]

No one subscribes = no subscription scams. Pretty simple.

^^This. If we agree to those scams we'll be renting everything in audio industry and then in every other one

Agreed. We have the power to stop these scams if we simply don't fall for them. But there is always someone who has more dollars than sense and will subscribe until they realize that in order to work on older projects that use rented plugins they have to keep renting forever.

The whole scheme is madness to me but like I said there's always someone......

[jens]

I don't get it - as a customer you can just ignore the old stuff (that's what I (mostly) do) - what do you mean with "crushed under the weight" of it?

I think he meant the amount of maintenance work they have to do. Like UI upscaling, making sure the old framework works with the new OSes, stuff like that. If you got five old plugins that's not a big problem, but if you got 50-100 that maintenance for even the smallest thing will suck up resources.

I actually answered that with my post. A lot of that is part of the shell, not the "plugin" itself.

[jamcat]

I’m really talking more about the ratio of relevant to irrelevant plugins that they sell, and the effect that has on how potential customers regard them. A software developer lives and dies by their reputation.

Once regarded as the preeminent developer, Waves has been hollowing out for years. People go where the heat is, and abandon sinking ships. Waves is the latter, and hasn’t been the former for a long time.

They are probably only actively selling a tiny fraction of their catalog in any number. So they look like they have a lot of products, but most of it just sit on the shelf.

[VitaminD]

When you start selling your old plugins for 20 or 30 dollars each, when they used to go for many hundreds, that's when you know you've both devalued your product and haven't advanced them to warrant interest.

Waves painted themselves into a corner in that aspect. I suppose that works for a short while to gain marketshare but it can't be your primary sales model.

Some places use L2 or the like and they just work.. for decades. There is little to no more revenue generated on those old plugins, outside of WUP. But the company is probably too large to sustain itself financially for such a situation. A smaller 1-5 man crew can withstand that and are probably more hungry and innovative since there isn't usually any big accountant or investment firm dictating terms.

I think, at this point, it might be smarter to keep the subscription plans but alongside reopen individual plugin sales and WUP but just without the fire sales. And probably right size their company (starting at the top).

[Compyfox]

To get back on topic, and ignoring certain quote-responses to my post (on the topic of "mathematical models made from turning schematics into algorithms" and me falling for "marketing"... as somebody that is known to look more closer under the hood of tools than many others here on this forum...).



I think Waves might eventually back-paddle to a certain extend. How much, that is yet to be seen. The damage has been done, and it has been done by themselves.


A prime example for similar would be Roland Corp with the "Roland Cloud".

Anybody remembers their attempt to start porting their hardware into software again, setting the stage with the SC-88 and the huge price difference between the iOS version to the "personal computer" version? (as in: 20USD vs 120USD+VAT). Then shortly after, they started the "Cloud" as pure "subscription only model". To keep the certainly valid criticism for this a bit more in check, they actually offered a "Loyalty Plan" for long-term users, where you can keep "two" (IMHO insanely overpriced for what you get) plugin at the end of the year. For forever. Only to eventually drop this offer to "one".

Then I remember listening in, and talking to Roland Corp themselves at Superbooth (was it 2018 or 2019? Been a while), stating that this is not a good offer. Mere months later, they dropped the Loyalty Plan completely, went back to pure "subscription only".

The follow-up backlash was once more... not insignificant. So what happened? Some more weeks later, and now you can actually purchase perpetual licenses. Price wise, still not a good deal. Additionally, you also have to be "always online" since it's random checks if you own a "legit license" (think early Slate Digital/GOBBLER subscription model), but they actually back-paddled and did offer perpetual(!) licenses.




So people have several options now - especially if you do not want to support this new route by Waves Audio. Or any company, really.. And I'm sure to utilize one of those (if not multiple) myself.

1) try to get your recent plugins running, triple backup all installers. If possible - move your existing licenses to a third party USB stick rather than "linked to HDD/OS". Then continue using your existing plugins until they break / are no longer usable. Unfortunately, the servers are currently insanely hammered (also in protest!), but I always had the foresight to activate my licenses on a custom USB stick.

2) other "backup" means (vaguely put... do not continue pressing this topic further here!)

3) stop using whatever you have from Waves Audio, and find suitable plugin alternatives (see the Community List for Alternatives as started by plexus)



At this point, this company is "scorched earth" territory. Proceed at your own discretion.

Also, keep supporting the small devs!




Fingers crossed that this thread will not be nuked by petty bickering. So please, stay on topic -- this way we can keep a spotlight on this.

[jens]

I’m really talking more about the ratio of relevant to irrelevant plugins that they sell, and the effect that has on how potential customers regard them. A software developer lives and dies by their reputation.

Once regarded as the preeminent developer, Waves has been hollowing out for years. People go where the heat is, and abandon sinking ships. Waves is the latter, and hasn’t been the former for a long time.

They are probably only actively selling a tiny fraction of their catalog in any number. So they look like they have a lot of products, but most of it just sit on the shelf.

I think up to now that was their biggest strength.

I always assumed Waves to be the most stable company of all. The one that will always be there, that will still maintain all their oldest plugins so you can safely expect to keep beeing able to re-open your age old projects even if you otherwise may not have used these ancient plugins in a decade (or two).

Trimmetry Tapper was my GoTo-delay back in the delay (and DK+ my GoTo drum-sampler). I still think it's great. But it has since long been abandoned. Nusofting still exists. But I'll be damned if I ever purchase from them again. And think about the looong list of (quite popular) plugins NI discontinued over the years.

Ironically enough Waves killed that one big advantage they had until now - the trust people had in them. I think their CEO must basically be braindead.

[Yadrichik_Chaya]

@Compyfox I agree with what you wrote except this:

”Anybody remembers their attempt to start porting their hardware into software again, setting the stage with the SC-88 and the huge price difference between the iOS version to the "personal computer" version? (as in: 20USD vs 120USD+VAT). ”

Here Roland did the right thing, the iOS music community have always had the same stuff but way cheaper. It was actually IK Multimedia that were the first to go against this with AUv3s starting at $100+ - Which made the iOS music community furious and pissed off hehe. Almost a little like Waves going subscription. Just wanted to point this out!

[Compyfox]

Counter argument... to close this out:


Is it really fair that iOS apps of a certain cross-platform software are significantly cheaper than a perpetual license on a computer?

Doesn't matter if you're having an iOS device, MacOS or Windows based device. You need to have the hardware in the first place. Also... didn't Apple make it possible to use these "iOS apps" on regular MacOS?

The criticism was valid back then, it is now. So I'd rather say what IK Multimedia did, was fair to all users, not just "one" userbase. Apologies to the iOS users for being inconvenienced by this.



Also, apologies for the digression.
Back to Waves Audio again.


Waves Audio are still being "ratio'd" on social media. And they keep doubling down with hiding posts, not responding to concerns. I'm surprised the threads on KVR stay mostly open (well, they do, if we remain civil and on topic, that is).

[i need Help]

One thing that l’ll miss from old Waves is the one-off freebies they use to give out that I assume will stop now that the bundles are all-or-nothing.

These were like the “first hit is free” that drug dealers give out to get you hooked lol.

Would always smh reading new Waves users like “I love this free plugin! AND there’s a limited time sale that’s almost over so I’m gonna buy some more plugins before they go back to MSRP!”

Meanwhile all the long-time Waves users were slumped over in the corner twitching and mumbling “Don’t do it. Don’t— anyone got some WUP, I’m coming down!!”

[jocknaethick]

Ah well, another bunch of plugins joining the ever increasing list that will no longer exist on my system due to:-
My refusal to join subscription models
Developers just shutting up shop
Selling out to Apple
Products that stop being developed and Apple break compatibility with OS updates
etc. etc.

I was actually surprised to see how many Waves plugins I had accumulated over the years, but I guess that is a reflection on the reality that they were probably impulse buys on big sales. I won't miss them, just as, I'm sure Waves won't miss me.

[keyman_sam]

So if you get a new computer and try to install your previously purchased plugins will it work?

[ramseysounds]

Thank god Waves will now go bankrupt and the industry will finally be rid of one of the most despicable developers ever.
This truly is a time to celebrate...........

Except you're probably wrong. The market is clearly saturated from existing Waves users (yes, me included; I like their products) so they are turning their attention to NEW users. If some existing users subscribe, which they will (not me) then that's a bonus for them.

I have long been an advocate of Waves. Their products ARE good and I have built quite a collection over the years and will continue to use them, BUT, they will not be getting another penny from me while there is no option to BUY a plug-in. So Waves, screw you.

[DCrown]

So if you get a new computer and try to install your previously purchased plugins will it work?

I don't think so

[ramseysounds]

I think it should do because you can transfer licences. You have to deactivate and reactivate. Probably best to message Waves support.

[jens]

so they are turning their attention to NEW users

lol


Yeah, that makes sense - it's really very likely they'll make a lot of new friends now...