Hive 2 vs Synthmaster One

[Korg Supporter]

Are you sure about that?

I somehow feel like clearing up some things which I feel like come about wrong here.

Hive 2 has 30 different filter algorithms - each of 10 responses has subtle or not so subtle differences in each of its 3 engines. And those are not just variations of the same old same old, they're all really useful and complementary to the sound generation possibilities. Other synths may have more flavours, but then they often don't offer such a complete set of responses with a similar attention to flavour as Hive does.

Likewise, the engines provide for different envelope slopes, as was topic further up in this thread. These are modelled after whatever was praised most at the time, so if someone needs "this punchy" or "that snappy" from this or that synth, they should find that in Hive easily.

Furthermore, not just self modulation and the Function Generators (which admittedly might seem obscure at first) can be used to shape envelopes or act as envelopes themselves. The ModMatrix has transfer curves and slew limiters which allow for multiple ways to shape envelopes with a click or two of routing. In addition, the Shape Sequencer can be "halted" and run by the envelopes, so one can probably create as many envelope shapes in Hive as in any such synth, easily.

Such that, Hive is a lot deeper than first meets the eye, but it does not require a degree in sound design to get great results, fast.

Having a separate character mode per filter would still be nice. Maybe that's what Zebra 3 will be for!

[Urs]

visual feedback in most modern synths.

Balls in orbit of knobs. A pet peeve of mine.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

A feel like the balls in orbit thing is simply a place where the bulk of the market and U-he may just not see eye to eye. I personally find those animations handy in other synths versus having to hunt things down in a text-based Mod Matrix. But then, audio rate modulations are how many times faster than the FPS of a display? Though I think some companies just paint an animated blur to indicate "very fast". Anyway, there are more than one ways to skin a cat and I respect U-he doing things differently.

Regarding the 30 filters in Hive and different envelopes: I think it doesn't come across that way because you can't mix and match. I can't use the Clean engine's low pass filters with the Dirty engine's envelope shapes for example. I understand why that is, but I also understand why potential customers wouldn't necessarily see all the different variations available.

Should any of this change? I don't have a problem with any of it. I love Hive. It's just the right level of complex for me. If animations could be added and done in a tasteful way, I wouldn't say no. But I'm a total Hive fanboy as is.

[Trancit]

Any good pointer for hive 2 training? Like youtube channel or so?

That was immediately my thought too after Urs´response...

I think that´s the biggest "miss/lack" with u-he plugins in general...
They are so deep and feature rich (so many things are not that obvious to find/do), that (I can only speak of me) one really needs special advice apart from the basic manual and videos like this knob does this/that presentation...

I personally know how much work it is to create some decent videos for teaching in an understandable way such deep stuff but I think this could really help to sell those plugins (at the very end I don´t know though...)...

The more people understand what great value they are the more will probably jump on the bandwagon...

There are some lonely more advanced videos from some YTubers but I rarely found something worth looking at...

Please Urs, hire some great teacher (add 10 euros to the price of the plugins for all I care if needed) and put some decent learning resource for plugins like Zebra and Hive on your channel... Zebra is already around for ages but especially Hive would be a good candidate which could need some deeper presentation...
Diva is already well covered... there are tons over tons of sound design and presentation videos on the net but for the other u-he synths I rarely see something... which is a pity imho and let me at the very end always not pressing the button as I simply have not a "deep enough idea" of them...

I think that´s something Manuel Schleis did very well with Avenger... he put really a lot of effort into 20-30 videos to demonstrate every even so little aspect of Avenger... perhaps something which helped the sales quite a bit.

Anyway... you get the idea...

[Jac459]

I think that´s something Manuel Schleis did very well with Avenger... he put really a lot of effort into 20-30 videos to demonstrate every even so little aspect of Avenger... perhaps something which helped the sales quite a bit.

Anyway... you get the idea...

Or fabfilter, the guy presenting the plugins is.... amazing.

[pdxindy]

Regarding the 30 filters in Hive and different envelopes: I think it doesn't come across that way because you can't mix and match. I can't use the Clean engine's low pass filters with the Dirty engine's envelope shapes for example. I understand why that is, but I also understand why potential customers wouldn't necessarily see all the different variations available.

My guess is that most users don't want all those options. There are a loud minority of users in forums who constantly ask for every possible feature cause their mind dislikes any kind of limitation. The thing is, most of those types, when they get more features, don't really use them anyway and immediately focus on the next 'must have' feature.

I like being able to switch between the 3 engines. They are like macros adjusting various parameters at once. I don't want every synth I use to have that, but it works for Hive (IMO)

[Trancit]

I think that´s something Manuel Schleis did very well with Avenger... he put really a lot of effort into 20-30 videos to demonstrate every even so little aspect of Avenger... perhaps something which helped the sales quite a bit.

Anyway... you get the idea...

Or fabfilter, the guy presenting the plugins is.... amazing.

It´s Dan Worral... who is a god of explaining complicated stuff... while it´s not him I would like for something like this... I think, he´s more of an Mixing and FX guy... he´s perfect for explaining what fx processes do to the signal but not so much a sound designer (or perhaps not at all...)

u-he would need a "synth guru- mega teacher" who would be able to demonstrate the special features of u-he synths in a pleasant, understandable and interesting manner...

I find that Propellerheads/Reason Studios always had a good hand with their moderators...
I found their videos (not the live streams) always very worth watching without getting bored or losing thread...
Great mixture of entertainment and learning...
So for example that´s simply a great and enjoyable way of commercially presenting their sampler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMt81Flz90

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Regarding the 30 filters in Hive and different envelopes: I think it doesn't come across that way because you can't mix and match. I can't use the Clean engine's low pass filters with the Dirty engine's envelope shapes for example. I understand why that is, but I also understand why potential customers wouldn't necessarily see all the different variations available.

My guess is that most users don't want all those options. There are a loud minority of users in forums who constantly ask for every possible feature cause their mind dislikes any kind of limitation. The thing is, most of those types, when they get more features, don't really use them anyway and immediately focus on the next 'must have' feature.

I like being able to switch between the 3 engines. They are like macros adjusting various parameters at once. I don't want every synth I use to have that, but it works for Hive (IMO)

Yes, I'd agree with that. I should be clear: I wasn't advocating for a change. Just stating the obvious as to why some may not realize Hive has 30 filters.

[SamDi]

adjustable envelope slopes

You can adjust the Env slopes in Hive by modulating the Env by itself. Also, the Function Generators work as envelopes and they have a dedicated slope control.

Not to forget to be able to make modulation log, lin or exp in mod matrix and different behaviour in clean, normal and dirty mode, but Urs already mentioned this.

Twin 3 by Fabfilter can be considered as Sylenth1 on steroids.
Hive comes with wavetable oscillators, various filters including the physical modelling ones and lots of modulation options. It is comparable to Serum, Dune, Vital, Synthmaster2 etc.

You can't really say it like that. Serum or Synthmaster2 have much more features, offer deeper control and you can achieve much stuff, what you can just not achieve with Hive. Just Serum, which is the simpler has sample playing, FM and sync out-of-the-box, all these filters, free drawable envelopes, multiband compression, you can draw saturation curves etc., etc.

They are fishing in complete different areas.

Furthermore, not just self modulation and the Function Generators (which admittedly might seem obscure at first) can be used to shape envelopes or act as envelopes themselves. The ModMatrix has transfer curves and slew limiters which allow for multiple ways to shape envelopes with a click or two of routing. In addition, the Shape Sequencer can be "halted" and run by the envelopes, so one can probably create as many envelope shapes in Hive as in any such synth, easily.

Such that, Hive is a lot deeper than first meets the eye, but it does not require a degree in sound design to get great results, fast.

To be honest, I ask myself, why U-He synths tend to need, making things complicated, where they wouldn't need to be. It seems like Bazille lasting inspired you, to implement all this trick-based stuff in all synths in your program.

ENVs or LFOs are a good example. In Serum or Phase Plant, you just can draw what you want in literally seconds and there you have it. No need for quadric, linear and v-slope modes as in Zebra or self modulations, modulation-matrix-transformation-curves or choosing different modes as in Hive. Might be a matter of taste, but in terms of usability and efficiency, direct access is better. I hope for Zebra 3, everything will be draw-able



What stays is, that Hive is one of my favorite and go-to-synths, because for easy patches, it's really fun while I skipped Synthmaster stuff (although sound is also very good), because bugs made me mad (was true for SM2 and maybe it's not so bad for SM1). Although SM1 offers more OSC manipulation like, FM, PM or RM, Hive at the end is a deeper synth, because you can just much more do in terms of modulation.

Maybe I should also mention, that Hive IMHO has the best curated wavetables in the market and one of the best stock-preset content. So if you can afford, go with it. If price is to steep, for sure SM1 is also no bad option.

[Jac459]

I find that Propellerheads/Reason Studios always had a good hand with their moderators...
I found their videos (not the live streams) always very worth watching without getting bored or losing thread...
Great mixture of entertainment and learning...
So for example that´s simply a great and enjoyable way of commercially presenting their sampler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMt81Flz90

100%! Love them too.

[nevis]

Any good pointer for hive 2 training? Like youtube channel or so?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... D5aYPD1Mpk

[vata44]

I love UHE synths and own a few, but the price difference between them and SM One is like night and day. So in that respect I would say SM One is an amazing deal and I love it as well. Tons of features in either good synth.

[twal]

Man, thank you guys for all of the replies I have learned a lot. Velltone, where you at? Would love it if you swung with SM One another time lol

Hive sound somehow retro analog-ish to me,if developer add more and different filters may consider it.
Prefer Synthmaster One because it has modulations i use ,which not many synths have (like lfo via lfo,switchable ADSR modes,sub osc is also FM,RING,PM modulator so on).
With some designers magic sounds really dope.
And it's 19 euro with discount:):):)
I think SM2 is what really stand out in the crowd.

They are saying Hive 2 is better (or something) at modulation.

[Examigan]

I love UHE synths and own a few, but the price difference between them and SM One is like night and day. So in that respect I would say SM One is an amazing deal and I love it as well. Tons of features in either good synth.

SM One is on sale right now for $19.

[Trancit]

Any good pointer for hive 2 training? Like youtube channel or so?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... D5aYPD1Mpk

This is a perfect example of what I mean...

(Urs, I am sorry and I really don´t want to jump on anybodies feet but...) These are just boring "this button does this" online manuals which are anything but inspiring...
I already have to fight hard with myself to even watch one of them all the way through...
ugly presentation sounds... nothing pleasant to watch and for sure nothing where one afterwards would shout... Wow, ... I have to get this thing!

I am pretty sure... if any employee in a marketing company would present his bosses these videos for an advertising campaign, he would be fired the same second.

I mean, this video is even older than the Hive 2 ones how Propellerheads explain Europa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJgT0KpfdWc

For me, this is a typical example of Noob vs. Pro...

But enough hijacking here... I don´t want to spam this thread anymore (Sorry for that, but it fitted so well...)