KVR Audio

gaggle of hermits · Post by **gaggle of hermits** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:06 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm And do perpetual licenses of Mercury receive new plugins again as they're released or are there going to be ever more new bundles which are not included in Mercury?

maybe they'll sugar the pill to try to make amends with the big-bundle owners but the ship looks as though it sailed on mercury additions a while back. only the bb tubes stuff made it in and nothing valuable like clarity pro (iirc). and the instruments got siphoned off a while back, not to mention abbey road.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:09 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm How about capping WUP at 100 bucks, while we're at it?
And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?

Or, how about just going to a normal strategy of reasonable pricing, loyalty discounts, occasional sales, occasional paid upgrades, maybe a reasonable license transfer fee, and no WUP? Ya know, the way those developers that people DON'T hate do it.

medienhexer · Post by **medienhexer** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:14 pm

cryophonik wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:09 pm
medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm How about capping WUP at 100 bucks, while we're at it?
And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?
Or, how about just going to a normal strategy of reasonable pricing, loyalty discounts, occasional sales, occasional paid upgrades, maybe a reasonable license transfer fee, and no WUP? Ya know, the way those developers that people DON'T hate do it.

I don't dare to hope for that. I was trying to put it into terms that Waves can process...

Of course, you're right. The rest of the industry are doing the right thing. Some even completely overextend themselves in order to treat customers fairly, where most loyal customers would gladly accept a paid upgrade (looking at you Urs, thanks for everything).

I just don't think Waves are even listening on that ear anymore.

FakeNatty · Post by **FakeNatty** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:15 pm

Are we ready for a second round at attempting a subscription model with a lowered price?

This is far from over

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:15 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?

Waves is already more generous on that than they should be. License transfer fees ought to be equal to the full price of the product.

Second-hand license sales are the #1 driver behind the move to subscriptions. Every time you buy or sell a “used” license, you are pushing that developer closer to going sub-only. It’s no coincidence that the subscription model first appeared right after the ECJ’s atrocious ruling in UsedSoft v Oracle. It’s bad law that has had devastating consequences.

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:16 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm How about capping WUP at 100 bucks, while we're at it?
And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?

It seems to be capped at 150 bucks (already checked for my own bundle...)

Recourt · Post by **Recourt** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:18 pm

Thank you Waves. Providing multiple options to accommodate the wide variety of users, this is the way.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:19 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:14 pm I don't dare to hope for that. I was trying to put it into terms that Waves can process...

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:23 pm

AcrossTheSky wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:52 pm That was coming...
I believe there won't be too many companies trying their luck in the future.... Cubase?..... joking..hoho...

Please, don't even go there.

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:25 pm

FakeNatty wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:15 pm Are we ready for a second round at attempting a subscription model with a lowered price?

This is far from over

Yes the fact that they tried such extreme measures doesn't give me any confidence in the future decision making abilities of this company. They've already shown their hand and thus what they're able and willing to do at a moments notice.

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:26 pm

I wonder how many people will now WUP and sell all of their Waves plugins?

I might be one of those people.

In other news, https://www.waves.com/ is not accessible. Page not loading.

Greenstorm33 · Post by **Greenstorm33** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:35 pm

Hope many people will join me in the "Waves get f***ed" challenge which is where you never buy anything from Waves again no matter what they do. They've thoroughly demonstrated that they're not worthy of your patronage.

wangeroge · Post by **wangeroge** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:37 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm How about capping WUP at 100 bucks, while we're at it?
And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?

And do perpetual licenses of Mercury receive new plugins again as they're released or are there going to be ever more new bundles which are not included in Mercury?

WUP for compatibility and performance only still feels terrible compared to almost every other developer. Transfer fees based on SRP which nobody ever pays just lock you in for financial reasons. How about offering stuff your users actually don't want to live without?

Yes, they were greedy before and getting away with it. They didn't notice that their brand was suffering. There are scientific papers about this. When the company heads notice it, it's often too late.

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm

I’m trying not to laugh.

No matter how much Waves has pissed me off, I’m sure there’s some good people who work there.
They’re just not likely to be the ones who can make decisions.

More than likely, they’re looking at this with the “I could have told you that” attitude and same disgust as many customers.

As much they say, they’re listening… I’m wondering who threatened the lawsuit first that got them to listen.

LoveEnigma18 · Post by **LoveEnigma18** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:38 pm

medienhexer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:59 pm How about capping WUP at 100 bucks, while we're at it?
And license transfers without active WUP? And how about that transfer fee? If I want to get rid of Mercury, I have to invest 240 bucks for WUP and what, 350 bucks for the transfer?

And do perpetual licenses of Mercury receive new plugins again as they're released or are there going to be ever more new bundles which are not included in Mercury?

WUP for compatibility and performance only still feels terrible compared to almost every other developer. Transfer fees based on SRP which nobody ever pays just lock you in for financial reasons. How about offering stuff your users actually don't want to live without?

Completely agree. WUP (pricing) really needs an update. And hope they get rid of those transfer fees and/or requirement to have the plugins covered by WUP to be able to transfer.

I hope the upcoming announcements will be more interesting than what's mentioned in the letter and what we know already, but I fear it could just be the latter.

I am quite surprised that they responded to this so quickly given how intense they have gone into Waves Creative Access and StudioVerse.

Waves already backtracking