VPS Avenger 2.1 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[twal]

Yeah, would like to know as well. Asked a couple of times in the other topic, but no replies yet. I will just wait for the version 2.0. Already have Nexus4, so Avenger is not essential or urgent for me. In fact, I bought Nexus earlier (after debating between the two) after getting some insights from Manuel himself and KVR members' advice.

Clearly Avenger is one of the best synth out there and 115USD is a catch... So I guess you should jump on the deal.

My 2 cents: generally when an upgrade is a new version with no backward compatibility, you need to pay in full for the upgrade because it is actually a different synth (like massive and massive x for example).
If the version is backward compatible then in majority the vendor offer an upgrade plan because compared to a new user, it is like the new user would have the previous version for free.
(at least that's my observation).

No question it is an awesome deal for a fantastic synth and indeed very tempting. But since I already have Nexus4 with expansions, I have always been a bit tentative about buying Avenger. Whenever I have wanted to buy it, I have asked myself if I really need it, since I am not much into designing my own sounds. For presets, I am covered with a lot of other synths including Nexus4.

I think your point about version makes sense, but I am not sure if Avenger 2.0 will be a completely new product, like Massive X. I think there will still be some crossgrade/upgrade pricing, but I guess Plugin Boutique or Vengeance might not have thought about this for the RTO.

Yeah, if you aren't interested in making your own presets I would not recommend it at full price but if you want to enjoy yourself the price is fantastic. The expansions are mind blowing. They are easily, quality-wise, the best patches I've heard. These are expensive (relative to the degree of musicianship they are not). They are worth it imo, but price-quantity is expensive. Manuel gave you the right advice on Nexus. Yeah, Avenger has impressive presets, but the bang for your buck comes when you use Avenger to make your own sounds, and with Nexus you have a lot already you don't need to program. It depends on how much money you want to spend. When I heard the Melancholia XP I was sold immediately, because the quality was on a whole different level.

Yeah, the price is what makes me think about it (again), but I also fear of getting into expansions and then eventually spending more than desired. The quality is top-notch, no doubt.

I am just trying to stay away from the temptation.

Yeah go with your gut; and I would like to add to that you can always wait for secondary sales on here that have Expansions as you will get an amazing deal, but then you get NFR (if that matters to you) on the license so that's the trade-off! (Actually I'm not sure of this)

[LoveEnigma18]

Yeah, would like to know as well. Asked a couple of times in the other topic, but no replies yet. I will just wait for the version 2.0. Already have Nexus4, so Avenger is not essential or urgent for me. In fact, I bought Nexus earlier (after debating between the two) after getting some insights from Manuel himself and KVR members' advice.

Clearly Avenger is one of the best synth out there and 115USD is a catch... So I guess you should jump on the deal.

My 2 cents: generally when an upgrade is a new version with no backward compatibility, you need to pay in full for the upgrade because it is actually a different synth (like massive and massive x for example).
If the version is backward compatible then in majority the vendor offer an upgrade plan because compared to a new user, it is like the new user would have the previous version for free.
(at least that's my observation).

No question it is an awesome deal for a fantastic synth and indeed very tempting. But since I already have Nexus4 with expansions, I have always been a bit tentative about buying Avenger. Whenever I have wanted to buy it, I have asked myself if I really need it, since I am not much into designing my own sounds. For presets, I am covered with a lot of other synths including Nexus4.

I think your point about version makes sense, but I am not sure if Avenger 2.0 will be a completely new product, like Massive X. I think there will still be some crossgrade/upgrade pricing, but I guess Plugin Boutique or Vengeance might not have thought about this for the RTO.

Yeah, if you aren't interested in making your own presets I would not recommend it at full price but if you want to enjoy yourself the price is fantastic. The expansions are mind blowing. They are easily, quality-wise, the best patches I've heard. These are expensive (relative to the degree of musicianship they are not). They are worth it imo, but price-quantity is expensive. Manuel gave you the right advice on Nexus. Yeah, Avenger has impressive presets, but the bang for your buck comes when you use Avenger to make your own sounds, and with Nexus you have a lot already you don't need to program. It depends on how much money you want to spend. When I heard the Melancholia XP I was sold immediately, because the quality was on a whole different level.

Yeah, the price is what makes me think about it (again), but I also fear of getting into expansions and then eventually spending more than desired. The quality is top-notch, no doubt.

I am just trying to stay away from the temptation.

Yeah go with your gut; and I would like to add to that you can always wait for secondary sales on here that have Expansions as you will get an amazing deal, but then you get NFR (if that matters to you) on the license so that's the trade-off!

Oh, I didn't know about the NFR situation, thanks for the heads-up. It is indeed important, especially due to various uncertainties these days. I will only get it if I feel I will keep it (for a long time).

[twal]

Yeah, just one license transfer. If you buy from Boutique or VPS site you will have the one transfer, if secondary NFR.
EDIT: (Actually I'm not sure of this)
EDIT 2: (Actually this is not true you can purchase a transfer if you own it second hand)
Hope it helps.

[Jac459]

This is the showcase with Bartek, there is also a video with the creator of the set (Alan Morris) and a Demo on the Youtube channel. I just watched a little of it. I can't even continue, it's too incredible and I need to take it slow this morning lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfOenwAJcBY

Thanks for the pointers!

[zerocrossing]

The sale seems like a great idea, but not that great if there’s a steep upgrade cost coming soon. I’m most interested in the spectral synthesis. Seems like maybe I should wait.

[Lectropunk aka influx808]

A great synth and a pleasure to program I'd never sell it

[twal]

The sale seems like a great idea, but not that great if there’s a steep upgrade cost coming soon. I’m most interested in the spectral synthesis. Seems like maybe I should wait.

Yeah, depends on the upgrade. Right now it's half off for $115 rather than $230.
If Avenger 2's price stays at $230, then the upgrade price would need to be $115 or less in order
to at least break even. If the synth goes up in price to say $300, and you get the deal at $115, that would mean an upgrade price of $185 or less to break even which seems like a high upgrade price, so the chances of the upgrade being much less than $185 is very high. I don't believe the upgrade price would be more than $100, so the deal of $115 seems like the best chance to take- especially if the team is paying attention to this game theory which I believe they are. If you wait to buy Avenger 2 and it stays at $230, then you will lose out on any opportunity even at this price if the upgrade is lower than $115. Like I said, if the price is higher, say $300 you lose out on a much better deal than buying now. If the synth is only a small bump up to $250, the upgrade price would only need to be $135 or less to break even or get a deal, meaning that even with a potential small increase you are gambling on the probability that the upgrade would be $135 or more if you passed on current deal, which doesn't seem like it would be the case. With a 50% off discount now, you are insuring that you give yourself that $115 buffer even at the current price if it did not change, which seems like the reasonable thing to ascertain; otherwise you are hoping that the synth stays at the same price or doesn't increase in price, and that an upgrade difference of $115+ would cost you money now instead of if you waited.

The sale ends today too, which when I contemplate, appears to have been set up in a way to on board people in order for them to get the deal; hence such a short time for the sale at Boutique which only is running for 8 days.

It doesn't make sense for them to give a deal now, and then make the deal worse for people who got it now with a price tag of $230 as continuation, and an upgrade price of $115+.

[Stan Navi]

UVI Falcon 2 was free upgrade, Pigments 1-4 was free upgrade, Phase Plant 2 also was free upgrade. Serum 2 will be free upgrade. This good examples of companies, which do not try to squeeze out as much money as possible from their plugins. And i am glad to support them, buying new plugins/expansions. I don't know how VPS team thinking and what business model they have. But if they rely on selling expansions, so it would be great to maintain base product(Avenger) for free or nominal price.

[twal]

If the upgrade is free, then buying on sale now makes it an even better proposition.

[msvs]

UVI Falcon 2 was free upgrade, Pigments 1-4 was free upgrade, Phase Plant 2 also was free upgrade. Serum 2 will be free upgrade. This good examples of companies, which do not try to squeeze out as much money as possible from their plugins. And i am glad to support them, buying new plugins/expansions. I don't know how VPS team thinking and what business model they have. But if they rely on selling expansions, so it would be great to maintain base product(Avenger) for free or nominal price.

We did pack so much free new features and updates in version 1.0 to 1.8.5 - strange that you seem to forget that.
However 1.8.5 will continue to work, so no one is forced to get v2. However v2 will also come with new sounds, compared to a new expansion, the upgrade price will be well worth it for these who are interested.

[kevvvvv]

msvs

We did pack so much free new features and updates in version 1.0 to 1.8.5 - strange that you seem to forget that.

This is so true

People forget the brilliant free ride on upgrades we've all had for a very long time

Many devs would be onto their version 7 by now with the amount of worthwhile upgrades Avenger has had.

[noiseboyuk]

We did pack so much free new features and updates in version 1.0 to 1.8.5 - strange that you seem to forget that.

Quite.

It’s so tiring reading endless comparisons to different products with their different business models, and complaining when it is not the best and cheapest of every single element of every other product.

I don’t think Avenger is perfect, but I respect all the passion, skill and work past, present and future that has gone into it.

[Jac459]

UVI Falcon 2 was free upgrade, Pigments 1-4 was free upgrade, Phase Plant 2 also was free upgrade. Serum 2 will be free upgrade. This good examples of companies, which do not try to squeeze out as much money as possible from their plugins. And i am glad to support them, buying new plugins/expansions. I don't know how VPS team thinking and what business model they have. But if they rely on selling expansions, so it would be great to maintain base product(Avenger) for free or nominal price.

I agree, lt would be great. It would be great also if the tesla cars were coming with 85% discount and 5 star hotels where offering free week stay from time to time...

Let's be realistic people need to be paid for the work they do...

I guess the business model of vps is to get paid for a work they took 2 years to do.... seems fair enough...

[Stan Navi]

UVI Falcon 2 was free upgrade, Pigments 1-4 was free upgrade, Phase Plant 2 also was free upgrade. Serum 2 will be free upgrade. This good examples of companies, which do not try to squeeze out as much money as possible from their plugins. And i am glad to support them, buying new plugins/expansions. I don't know how VPS team thinking and what business model they have. But if they rely on selling expansions, so it would be great to maintain base product(Avenger) for free or nominal price.

We did pack so much free new features and updates in version 1.0 to 1.8.5 - strange that you seem to forget that.
However 1.8.5 will continue to work, so no one is forced to get v2. However v2 will also come with new sounds, compared to a new expansion, the upgrade price will be well worth it for these who are interested.

I am not saing you didn't develop Avenger during this time, but so did companies pointed above and still their focus differs as I can understand. I heard your point of view. That is what I wanted to know.

[Stan Navi]

UVI Falcon 2 was free upgrade, Pigments 1-4 was free upgrade, Phase Plant 2 also was free upgrade. Serum 2 will be free upgrade. This good examples of companies, which do not try to squeeze out as much money as possible from their plugins. And i am glad to support them, buying new plugins/expansions. I don't know how VPS team thinking and what business model they have. But if they rely on selling expansions, so it would be great to maintain base product(Avenger) for free or nominal price.

I agree, lt would be great. It would be great also if the tesla cars were coming with 85% discount and 5 star hotels where offering free week stay from time to time...

Let's be realistic people need to be paid for the work they do...

I guess the business model of vps is to get paid for a work they took 2 years to do.... seems fair enough...

Your example with Tesla is not convincing. If you read carefully, i already mentioned companies with great and powerful synths, who suggest upgrade to V2 for free. So no need to whine and behave like this. I just wanted to hear vps team point of view.