Waves...smh

[kidslow]

Not a huge thing if you're on Windows but for some reason on Mac the OS changes annually it seems and that hoses these plugins from functioning there.

It's funny to see how often this myth gets perpetuated. Never by Mac users either.

Well, I've only seen Mac users complaining about this in the forums. Never Windows. So that's all I have to work with.

Did you see anything else wrong with my post about WUP? Because it wasn't a Mac vs PC post, I was simply helping to explain WUP to someone that asked.

You're right that Mac users complain about it. Everything else you said about WUP seems spot on.

And I think the point that jezjez made about having to proactively login and click to make the upgrade while your WUP is still active cannot be stated loudly enough. An honest dealing company would automatically apply the version upgrade to your account as long as WUP was active on the day of the version upgrade. It's slimey.

[DrGonzo]

Continue to speak with your wallet, people.
Support the smaller devs!

I'll be burned at the Waves stake for saying this, but when I'll probably do one more WUP on my new Mac Silicon. I change computer maybe once every 4-5 years and although Apple with most surely break things for the next OS - I'll buy myself some time to slowly phase out Waves. I don't want to rush out and grab whatever I find that never ends well.

[ghettosynth]

And I think the point that jezjez made about having to proactively login and click to make the upgrade while your WUP is still active cannot be stated loudly enough. An honest dealing company would automatically apply the version upgrade to your account as long as WUP was active on the day of the version upgrade. It's slimey.

Agreed, it is slimey...

...grumble grumble grumble...carry on...

[Ah_Dziz]

Yeah WUP wasn't really much of an issue on PC but I had to move to a Mac due to work which makes it almost mandatory.
I wasn't too happy with their policies either, there's a bug with Waves plugins (v12 maybe?) that messes with some NI instruments. v13 was released while I was in WUP but I missed the email and because I didn't click the 'update to v13' button or whatever before my WUP ran out they said nope, you're stuck on v12.

This situation is some bullshit. I had to get on the phone with someone to find out that one does in fact have to go to waves to manually update their license, even though all previous versions are covered by new licenses. I missed a full update to my diamond bundle because of this. The tech was very apologetic and didn't agree with the way it was done either, but that didn't do me much good.

They need to do some serious outreach and upgrading of their PR and communication. They rolled back the worst possible move, but they may have still burned their company down. There are many simple things they could do that might buy back some goodwill from people. Oh well. Maybe they'll clean house and whip their operation into shape after all this...........

[plexuss]

What Waves can do to maybe recover is get rid of WUP and offer lifetime free updates and license transfers for free or a small nominal charge, like almost all other plugin companies. I get the need to differentiate yourself but damaging your business in the process is actually quite bizarre. No need. They should just do what their competitors do. It's almost like Waves is run by the AA folks. THATs a whole other story....

[VitaminD]

Continue to speak with your wallet, people.
Support the smaller devs!

I'll be burned at the Waves stake for saying this, but when I'll probably do one more WUP on my new Mac Silicon. I change computer maybe once every 4-5 years and although Apple with most surely break things for the next OS - I'll buy myself some time to slowly phase out Waves. I don't want to rush out and grab whatever I find that never ends well.

Hah! Nah I don't blame you. Make rational moves not emotional ones.

I actually still like some of their plugins, and I'd probably use even more of the Waves plugins if it weren't for the shaky Waves business model.

It's just WUP was a bit offputting (expensive, long term) to me and now I really am leery about trusting the company in the future giving their subscription-or-no-soup-for-you debacle. I'm really interested in seeing what they plan to do next with the reversal... specifically what they mean that is.

Waves is Waves worst enemy.

[VitaminD]

What Waves can do to maybe recover is get rid of WUP and offer lifetime free updates and license transfers for free or a small nominal charge, like almost all other plugin companies. I get the need to differentiate yourself but damaging your business in the process is actually quite bizarre. No need. They should just do what their competitors do. It's almost like Waves is run by the AA folks. THATs a whole other story....

I think I wouldn't even mind WUP if it was for something like a 3 year window.

Coming out with a new series version every year and then charging money to keep your plugin in the latest series installer is ridiculous. I'd rather pay more money up front once than continually paying a little at a time indefinitely to keep the plugin supported. A lot of their plugins haven't changed much in 10 years or more, yet you keep having to pay to keep them compatible and in the latest installer. That's nutty to me.

I think their company has something like 150+ people in it. Salaries cost a lot to support. I hate to say it but they probably have too many people on staff than what their company can support in the given (saturated) business climate.

When many nations economies are in rough seas, the first thing people are going to pull are subscriptions and non-essentials. So it was really poor timing even if they had not left the sour taste in how they handled it..

[plexuss]

I think their company has something like 150+ people in it. Salaries cost a lot to support. I hate to say it but they probably have too many people on staff than what their company can support in the given (saturated) business climate.

Which Waves created themselves. Remember, Waves was the one with perpetual deep sales on everything, but even then it was still a lot more than when they dropped their individual prices to $29. I bought a couple very expensive bundles as the prices dropped but I got them mid-way. They ended up being even less than I was able to get them for. Waves really did this to themselves, by being the leader in the bargain basement pricing movement. And now all this. Is this is the same leadership team now as when the great prices drop happened? If so, no wonder. Dummies.

[ramseysounds]

So many experts on how to run businesses on here yet they probably don’t run businesses

[jamcat]

Well they couldn't have done any worse.

[kovengarden]

They are probably busy figuring a way out. Such a fiasco leaves a bad taste to their broad and spending users. There will be negative word-of-mouth lasting for months if not years. This could result in their proposals or userbase reports not looking good when applying for the next stage of loan or meeting with potential investors. I feel bad for their employees, as job loss or company restructuring maybe in sight. This is all down to the fault of management. The problem is not with the subscription model or constant bombarding of $29 plugin sales, but with the severe lacking of communication with the paying/paid customers.

The company has to 'win' back lost customers, as the number of current users is plummeting every hour as people are seeking alternatives to the plugins. There are influential YTbers giving out their recommended lists to replace the Waves plugins. Other developers are putting ads to win take more users. Frankly, this company restoring permanent licenses and WUP in parallel with the subscription for users will not be enough. The sad part is it's difficult to see an old dinosaur doing something drastic to win back users. Also I was shocked when learned the company being so generous by giving affiliate deposit worth of thousands to some YTbers, while average users including me, who had spent thousands, have to ponder and wait for months in hope of the next sale. Then out of the blue they told everyone now it's subscription only. What the heck is this all about?! One affiliate even confessed that he had known this move quite a while but he couldn't say it because of affiliate NDA. This company is soooo out of touch and seems only care about winning the YT/TikTok generation.

[noiseboyuk]

Not a huge thing if you're on Windows but for some reason on Mac the OS changes annually it seems and that hoses these plugins from functioning there.

It's funny to see how often this myth gets perpetuated. Never by Mac users either.

The only major recent hosing on a Mac by Waves took place when Apple changed hardware for their processors, so not just an "annual OS change" but a complete hardware architecture change.

The idea that this is a myth is a myth. I updated my 2015 MBP just over a year ago when I was updating from one OS to another to make Cubase 12 work. That broke all my Waves plugs, so I updated Gold to Platinum in a deal for about 60 bucks. No complaints whatsoever. Now I’ll need to update again if I buy silicon.

So you’re factually incorrect. Mac users have had to update on OS updates, not just for the silicon transition.

[Bombadil]

Which is why they'll never see another cent from me. Fascinating to watch this train wreck.

[martiu]

what is WUP?

You can't tell me you've never paid for a wuppin

i am not a waves plugin owner

The entirety of the Waves plugin lineup was (is?) under a whole version numbering system. You buy a plugin but you aren't eligible for updates for the entirety of that plugin's existence. Instead, you got a years worth of Waves Update Plan. If the plugin was updated within that timeframe of your WUP window, you got the updates to it.

This was generally (if not entirely) done under whole versions of the Waves plugin lineup. For example they're on version 14 right now. So if you bought during 13, your WUP time ran out, and Waves released version 14 well sorry you need to pay for an updated WUP to get version 14. Otherwise, you were stuck with the version 13 level of your software.

It gets kind of messy if you don't keep up with it. For example, I have various plugins in Version 9, 10, 12, and 14. I could update the WUP on the version 9, 10, and 12 plugins to get them in line with the current version of 14, but that costs money.

That's how Waves was largely making their money -- sell the plugin for dirt cheap (or give it away for free) then collect WUP fees long term to keep the plugins up to date.

Not a huge thing if you're on Windows but for some reason on Mac the OS changes annually it seems and that hoses these plugins from functioning there.

And, maybe it has changed recently, but Waves had separate installers for each version. So it was a bit kludgey to reinstall if you had plugins spread all over various versions. Since they don't give you individual installers but force you either to use the online downloader thingy or get a huge multi GB offline installer.

seems like a lot of work for some plugins, are they really good plugins?
people clinch hard on them

[noiseboyuk]

seems like a lot of work for some plugins, are they really good plugins?
people clinch hard on them

Some of them are excellent and best in class, some are nothing that a million others don't do. Some of the older workhorses are undervalued imo, their low CPU usage is very welcome.