Hive 2 vs Synthmaster One

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

Ha ha, you remember the guys, saying that this plastic music is no real music in opposite to good hand-played rock, whose parents told them, that this distorted noise and screaming is flat in opposite to .... you recognize the pattern?

"EDM" is an umbrella term, describing all and nothing. The fronts do not run through old and new, but through creative music with passion and commercial mainstream, squeezing out each trend. There does much amazing new stuff arise these days with all these amazing tools from young people having opportunities for an amount of money (or even free), we couldn't dream of, when we were in their age.

I can appreciate the production skills that are required to produce a convincing Dub Step track. But notice I said production skills and not songwriting abilities.That is my issue with most "EDM." It's typically created by people whose musical abilities are relatively weak, both in terms of playing an instrument and having an understanding of music theory.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Both are good synths, Synthmaster might have more options. But regarding osc + filter sound and UX quality, I think Hive is a lot better.

What I am really missing in Hive is individual curves for each phase in the AD(S)R, just like Synthmaster One, but then also cross-osc stuff like SYNC, RM and all of it at the same time with a mix amount for each. I think this really would improve the scale of possible sounds and genre styles. But I understand that these additions would require a overhaul of the gui concept... A simplification for adding cross-osc sync and ringmod would be to allow it between the osc and the sub-osc.

[Urs]

I think the problem is that Hive has 3 completely different methods to calculate the envelopes. None is based on those geometric curves that people seem to like a lot more than I do, but also non of the curves Hive uses can be achieved with those geometric formulations.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Yes, the curves in Hive sound optimized for usability and very useful in most cases. Yet there might be a lack of control in some situations. Just comparing synthmaster one here with Hive. I already like Hive very much just like it is.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

I think the problem is that Hive has 3 completely different methods to calculate the envelopes. None is based on those geometric curves that people seem to like a lot more than I do, but also non of the curves Hive uses can be achieved with those geometric formulations.

i would much rather have a musical sounding envelope than the ability to specify the curve of each envelope segment.

Take Kontakt, for instance. Its envelopes are completely unmusical. When designing pad sounds, I always have to adjust the Attack segment curve to make it sound more musical. I just wish Native Instruments would implement a good sounding envelope from the start rather than make me dick around with envelope curves.

[Hanz Meyzer]

i would much rather have a musical sounding envelope than the ability to specify the curve of each envelope segment.

This could be optional: Either the U-He secret algorithm or a custom curve ADSR.

Also what I forgot to mention about Synthmaster One/2: There are also iOS versions of it. I think you can exchange the preset with each desktop variant. This opens up a lot of possibilities. You could use your iPad and a midi keyboard to noodle around and designing presets. No computer required. Quite cool IMO

[SamDi]

That is my issue with most "EDM." It's typically created by people whose musical ability are relatively weak, both in terms of playing an instrument and having an understanding of music theory.

This was true 40 years ago and will ever be. Everything is relative. When you look at Jazz or Funk, the music theory and playing skills of Depeche Mode (because you referred to) relative to that are a joke. Does this Depeche Mode make a bad band? Or isn't it the case, that they just have a different focus?

There are modern acts, where music theory and playing capabilities exceed most of what you had in the charts in the 80ies.

Might be, that with democratization of music making (whole studio in the laptop and distributing via streaming services) made it easier to spread crap, but that doesn't mean that still good music isn't released.

It's like the story with the glass half empty or half full, it's just from which perspective you wanna see it.

[vurt]

edm, if you are using it as an umbrella term, would include the likes of aphex twin and squarepusher, william orbit, air etc... to say these guys don't know music theory is far from true.

if you mean edm as a genre, yes, it lacks much of what we grew up with regards technical performance, but it's not really designed for sitting around listening, it's intended to make the young folk dance, which it seems to achieve quite well from what ive seen, so mission accomplished!

kids are supposed to rebel, rock n roll shocked the older folks and gave us the teenager!!
then the rock and rollers grew up and moaned about punk. then they grew up and hated synth music and so on to now.

everything is as it should be!!

[pdxindy]

i would much rather have a musical sounding envelope than the ability to specify the curve of each envelope segment.

This could be optional: Either the U-He secret algorithm or a custom curve ADSR.

Or use one of the existing methods already in Hive to adjust Env curves...

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

That's my issue with most "EDM." It's typically created by people whose musical abilities are limited, both in terms of playing an instrument and having an understanding of music theory.

This was true 40 years ago and will ever be. Everything is relative. When you look at Jazz or Funk, the music theory and playing skills of Depeche Mode (because you referred to) relative to that are a joke. Does this Depeche Mode make a bad band? Or isn't it the case, that they just have a different focus?

Alan Wilder was a member of Depeche Mode during their heyday. He is a classically trained pianist and arranger who was responsible for the sound of Depeche Mode's most successful records. So no, Depeche Mode has never been a band of musical neophytes who stumble along until they find something that sounds good.

Might be, that with democratization of music making (whole studio in the laptop and distributing via streaming services) made it easier to spread crap, but that doesn't mean that still good music isn't released.

I thought we were talking about EDM. Almost by definition that "music" is crap. I don't care how slick the production is, if there are no actual songs with, you know, melodies, then I'm out.

[rod_zero]

Complex music writing peaked a long time ago, virtuosity has been out of fashion for a long time, prog rock and Jazz are more niche than ever as the last spaces. Even good performers as Nils Frahm compose minimalistic music.

Some elements of music become more or less relevant as time passes, melody and specially harmony are not in a high regard right now, rythm is the dominant element, and even sound design is suffering because people listen on earbuds and crappy bluetooh speakers . but it is more a big cyclic thing, in some decades we might come back to performance being more important.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

Ha ha, you remember the guys, saying that this plastic music is no real music in opposite to good hand-played rock, whose parents told them, that this distorted noise and screaming is flat in opposite to .... you recognize the pattern?

Well, those numbskull jocks who listened to "Loverboy" in the 80s soon discovered how popular Depeche Mode were. There are very, very few Rock acts who can sell out the Pasadena Rose Bowl Stadium as Depeche Mode did in the late 80s. 35 years later and Depeche Mode continue to sell out stadiums across the world. So when I suggest you listen to DM's Delta Machine album, you should probably listen to it. You might actually learn something.

"EDM" is an umbrella term, describing all and nothing. The fronts do not run through old and new, but through creative music with passion and commercial mainstream, squeezing out each trend. There does much amazing new stuff arise these days with all these amazing tools from young people having opportunities for an amount of money (or even free), we couldn't dream of, when we were in their age.

Indeed, we should all applaud a musical genre (EDM) that is produced by talentless brats using cracked copies of Fruityloops and Live on shitty PC laptops with as many cracked VSTi's as they can get their grubby hands on.

The whole scene is a complete joke. At least Depeche Mode have written great songs featuring era defining production techniques.

[El°HYM]

Hive 2 is also pretty good for Ambient Pads, especially when re-amped.

[a9k1tp]

Serum's only got ADSR and MSEGs and is still in business.

MSEGs are easy to use. They are not overkill.

yes exactly, Serum has traditional ADSR envelopes instead of “only MSEGs” and Steve is still in business. You’re not really contradicting what you quoted , and what I said before.

You hallucinating?
I never said/quoted anything regarding "only MSEGs"

My only point - MSEGs are WYSIWYG modulators. Great for people who are not fortunate enough to use hardware synths before.

If Hive included better or equivalent MSEGs compared to Serum, I would have completely stopped using Serum. [Not a request, just my opinion, what I feel missing].

Hive is a great synth, but modulation system is difficult, especially for the basic things I am used to do in Serum.

[Urs]

Hive is a great synth, but modulation system is difficult, especially for the basic things I am used to do in Serum.

They're almost literally the same, only Serum has a spreadsheet view that's on a separate page while Hive has a tab at the bottom for a mini-spreadsheet. Both have an additional "on target" little thing that sets modulation depths next to the modulated parameter. Both have modulations modifiers in their respective spreadsheet views, albeit different ones.