Waveform 12 - Two Problems: Audio, and messed up results from drum track

[56Kruiser]

Problem getting audio from midi files I imported
I use a Yamaha DGX 660 and I want to import 2 5 track midi files I have created and I want to make a combined 10 track midi file.

When I load the midi files into Waveform, I am unable to hear anything when I play them. Every place I look for answers to this problem...I don't see my scenario, which is playing and editing midi files that I did not create in Waveform.

My Yamaha shows up as Portable Grand, input, and output. Although I don't think the midi on the Yamaha is for input. It's really an USB Midi port which I use when I'm studying through PGS, and it indicates errors on the music I am playing. So the keyboard is outputting midi to that laptop which of course takes it to PGS.

My audio device is Windows Audio, output to speakers on the laptop. It does make a tone when I click the TEST button.

Is it possible to get sound from the midi files when I am editing them? If you can point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

Drum track very bad
One of the 2 midi files has drums, which are created in the midi file by the Yamaya using a drum kit. I would presume in the midi file that it is noted which voice to use from the Yamaha, but maybe not. Does not sound anything at all like the original midi file. So performing this simple test:

• Save 2 midis from Yamaha

• Import midis into Waveform

• Export out to midi from Waveform

• Load in Yamaha and play

And the drum track sounds terrible. Of course, not being able to get audio from Waveform, it requires that I save it out and load in the keyboard to see how it sounds.

Maybe I must use a drum track from Waveform.

All help and suggestions appreciated.

[56Kruiser]

Hmmm...well, I just found a post I had posted almost a year ago, with zero replies. I had moved on to other tasks, but now ready to pick it up. But, ,probably will be the same on this one.

Maybe I got the wrong DAW, I'm having problem finding answers.

Fingers crossed, but I'' try to search out another forum.

[pough]

It sounds like you're not adding an instrument plugin for the MIDI to play through.

MIDI + <nothing> = no sound
MIDI + instrument plugin = sound

This is a pretty common mistake. You are doing the equivalent of sitting on a piano bench and wiggling your fingers when there is no piano.

[56Kruiser]

Thank you so much!

I'll try to find info on that. I couldn't find anything on working with midi files. I'm definitely green with regard to a DAW. I presumed it would come standard with instruments.

So I presume that if my midi file contains 5 tracks, each a different instrument, I would need to load a plugin for each of those. I presume these would need to be purchased.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, if you have MIDI stuff that's successfully loading into waveform, you have 2 choices really...
(But first make sure you really have note events there in the MIDI track. test that by adding a simple VST (piano, or something "fast" in, say, 4OSC) to the end of the track, to convert MIDI to audio to hear it.

1. Use a MIDI VST on the track as above. Note if the track/clip had 5 instruments on it, you may have to have that copied (or MIDI patch-bay-ed) to multiple tracks and filter them based on what MIDI channel you want to go to what instrument.
2. Send the MIDI output OUT to MIDI (i.e. back to the Yamaha) - but be sure you select it as the output device, AND you assign an expected MIDI channel AND you disable that test MIDI VST or remove it, as it will default to PLAYING the MIDI but not forward it out to the Yamama. This probably gets trickier if the content had 5 MIDI channels on it, that you then want to send back to the original 5 instruments (??).

[Peter Widdicombe]

There ARE lots of good/free instruments out there, but it may take some digging and testing to find what appeals to you. There are also things like .SF2 files that are "soundfont libraries" that you can load into a sound font player like SFORZANDO, with each file having a selection of "canned" sounds. Some better than others.

Drums can be challenging. Some synths with drum kits may follow "standard" drumkit mapping for the basic kick/snare/toms/cymbals; some may not default to the same note-to-drum mapping. Easy enough to figure out in the MIDI editor, if that's the case.

[56Kruiser]

I'm thinking that Collective is a plugin for multiple instruments which is installed, along with Imagina Drum Loops. Hopefully I'll find some videos on those that may get me started.

@pough, thanks again for your getting me pointed to a path.

[56Kruiser]

Wow! I see more replies. Gives me some homework

I should probably be more specific about my goals for this very first project. I had expected this to be easy (Sometimes I am optimistic

I am working on some sheet music I got from Musescore which has 10 tracks/instruments in it. The Yamaha DGX has only 5 recording tracks.

Having loaded some midi files to the Yamaha that were not generated by myself, I have learned that what loads up may be more than 5 instruments, but it will load multiple instruments to the same track. So, I figured I would just pull up the 2 5 track midi files (each track with 1 instrument) and render it out to 1 midi, and voila...load it up and go.

Then what I have experienced is:

• First surprise (well second...first was no sound): I had read that I could change the BPM number and that would change the tempo. Doesn't seem to be the case. Apparently requires more than just changing the number.

• Drums in particular sound absolutely horrible. I had expected for the new midi to use the same instrument in the Yamaha that I used creating the midi that I loaded into the DAW. Seemed to be ok, except for drums. So now I'm wondering if doing this in the DAW will ultimately completely negate what instruments I used to create the original midi

So, while I started with the purpose of just joining the 2 midis, I now want to work with volume for each track.

Thanks to all of you. I am very appreciative. I will be exploring the training videos on the Traction site, now that I have a point in the right direction. If you have any further comments, please post them.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, if you have the full version of Waveform, you have Collective as well, with a large and varied collection of sounds. I don't think the free version of Waveform includes this?

It has a browser that's only partially intuitive. Quirkiest to get used to is that you have to double-click the patch name on the right to actually LOAD the patch; and you can see this take effect on the left side. (Maybe if that had followed the general Waveform methodology of everything is logically left to right it would have made more sense B-).

[pough]

I had expected for the new midi to use the same instrument in the Yamaha that I used creating the midi that I loaded into the DAW.

I think you're working under some incorrect assumptions regarding the nature of MIDI. Think of it as being like sheet music. If you're playing trumpet and you hand your sheet music over to the bassoonist, they're not going to suddenly start making trumpet noises out of their bassoon. MIDI is pretty much just which note is being played, how hard, and for how long. The instrument/audio exists completely outside of that.

[vondersulzburg]

This could be a option in the settings: create automatically a instrument (simple Piano) when adding a midi file eg Reason Studio does so.

[56Kruiser]

I think you're working under some incorrect assumptions regarding the nature of MIDI.

I'm sure that is true. Based on my comments below, it seemed it was a logical assumption. I'll be learning.

But, the midi from the Yamaha has info about what instruments were assigned to the track based on capturing the information as the song is played, no? And in fact each track I loaded from the Yamaha midi file is named for the instrument that I used to capture the data.

Screenshot 2023-04-04 141333.png

So what I'm hearing here is that the only value that the instrument name as pictured above is to then assign whatever instruments you may have in the DAW.

All that being said, I have loaded midi files on the Yamaha, and they used the correct instruments.

As I think through this, I'm struggling to understand how the DAW could have assigned instruments that can be interpreted by the Yamaha when loaded, but that the instruments that clearly are shown in the uploaded Yamaha midis into the DAW cannot be interpreted by the DAW.

Again everyone...I am appreciating your input. It's already very helpfull and providing me with thoughts on what I need to search for in videos to learn DAWs further.

Oh, also, maybe this has something to do with it too. I'm not sure what I need to do with this, or what it means to the project:

[Watchful]

But, the midi from the Yamaha has info about what instruments were assigned to the track based on capturing the information as the song is played, no? And in fact each track I loaded from the Yamaha midi file is named for the instrument that I used to capture the data.

Not at all. It will capture what *channel* each note was played on. But typically MIDI doesn't record the program or preset that was assigned to it.

You can, however, encode that information into MIDI through a DAW. For example, you can send a program change to the keyboard by channel and number: "On channel 4, change the program to 12." But what "program 12" is depends on the hardware at the other end. This is Pough's example with the trumpeter handing sheet music to a bassoonist. You can write "C Trumpet" on the sheet music, but the bassoonist will ignore it if she doesn't have that instrument.

This must seem bewildering, but you're very, very, very close to getting this all figured out.

One thing to add, if you're new to software instruments: Waveform can send MIDI information to a software synth OR to a hardware synth, but not typically both at the same time. If you put a virtual instrument into the right end of track 1, that's not going to get to your Yamaha.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Or, as the message indicated: the track contains MIDI-generating clips... You can either process the MIDI and generate sound locally with, say, Collective and you pick the appropriate patch;

- OR - (and this can prove to have it's own set of challenges...)

You can tell Waveform to output to a MIDI device (i.e. the Yamaha). Click on the output selector (speaker) at the right side of the track, and select the Yamaha. Unfortunately, this isn't enough - Waveform internally sort of ignores midi channels by default, so you have to tell EACH CLIP what MIDI channel it should output to, on it's way to the Yamaha. Now you have to set the Yamaha to recognize the midi channels you're sending to it, so it knows what instrument to play.
1. Click to select the clip
2. Click on the speaker, and select the hardware device it goes to
3. Select the MIDI channel for all notes coming out of this clip.
... and make sure you do NOT have a VST in the output section to swallow the MIDI noted.
... and repeat for each clip you want to go to external devices.
MUCH easier just using VST's; and it then becomes "portable" as you can pick up the laptop and carry around everything you need to work on it, except for physical keys.

[56Kruiser]

You guys are great. I have attained noise , that is, I'm getting instruments playing.

So, with all these surprises for me, I'm left concerned about 1 thing at this point:

As I noted earlier, my 'project goals' were what I thought was simple: take 2 midi 5 track midis from the Yamaha via a midi save then load to the DAW. Then save them out to 1 midi 10 track file. Then let the Yamaha import the 1 midi file to 1 file on the Yamaha to play.

And I have determined that I do need to change volumes on some of the tracks before I render. One thing critical to my goal: that the same voices (instruments) I used on the Yamaha to create the midi in the first place are used when I load the combined midi into the Yamaha.

Right now, it doesn't seem possible. The DAW won't have the identical instruments/tones for it's output. I don't see how I can determine the voices the Yamaha will use when I load the edited 10 track midi.

One specific question, bur first some context: On the Yamaha, I can record two tracks on the Yamaha at different beats, and it will play together correctly. To accomplish that all I need to do is be sure the tempo setting on the keyboard is set to the tempo I am actually playing at when I record the track. So, for example, let's say I record track 1 at 180 beats, then I record track 2 at 240. When I record track one, I set the metronome to 180, and when I record track 2 I set the metronome to 240. Plays well. And I can set the tempo to any beat I want and all tracks will play in synch at whatever bmp I set.

So, with that context, lets say one of my 2 midi's are at 180, and the other is at 240. Can they be synchronized? Of do I need to be sure both are at same beat, and that it be the beat I want at the end of the project?

I hope I'm not making you guys go nuts.