Some A&Rs are just plain mean...

[hhuang9611]

Maybe some basic info about me before my rant...
I have been making Trance for almost 5 years now, and have signed a few tracks to reputable labels. So I'm familiar with and used to the demo submission process and getting rejected.

Normally, I'm totally fine with rejection, because I would get a generic reply saying that "the track does not fit our label, looking forward to more demos and good luck next time", etc. Which is totally okay, maybe I'm not quite there yet for signing on to this label. Then I will just went to other labels, and start working on something better.

However, this time, this A&R's reply just seemed so mean... (I redacted names of the person and label). Here is the quote of the email. (also attached as picture)

Hi,

Thank you very much for your demo submission. We don’t think that the production standard is a good fit for us at the moment, keep working on your music, refine your production skills and we will be happy to listen to more demos from you in the future.

Good luck with the label search.

Best wishes,

I mean... it's fine to probably just say that "your track did not fit our label", but why specifically imply that my production standard is inferior ... Also, of course I know I should constantly refine my skills (it's all part of the journey), but saying that out loud is just mean. It makes me feel that the whole email is saying "your music is garbage, not worth submitting to our label. Why don't you practice a lot more before sending your music to us? "
(I now can understand Rick's feeling when Bird Person brutally rejected his offer... It's fine to say no, but saying reasons that patronizes other person is just mean)

Well, maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I do have received a lot of rejections from labels in the past and I have always been fine with those: they even motivated me to constantly improve. But this email really has given me a bad day and utterly discouraged me from creating anything. I mean, I don't expect to be hitting top charts after just 5 years of production, but an email like this really made me feel like I'm still the entry-level producer 5 years ago... so what's the point?

Maybe they don't really mean those in this email, but I don't think this is a good rejection communication from an A&R.

Anyway, thank you everyone who read though my rant. If this post has given you a bad vibe, my sincere apologies. It's just this email has been haunting me for the past few days, and I feel like I need to let it out, and maybe see if someone has any experience to relate or any suggestions on how I can get over with this quick.

Have a nice day! And I hope you don't need to deal with A&Rs like this guy.

[vurt]

seems ok to me tbh.
and five years is nothing.

no idea who rick and bird person are?

[hhuang9611]

seems ok to me tbh.
and five years is nothing.

no idea who rick and bird person are?

Yeah, I know. Problem is I have received many rejections before (from label big and small) but all were okay. This one, however, just feels very discouraging and patronizing.

As for Rick and bird person, it’s a reference to an episode in Rick and Morty.

[Bombadil]

I've seen a soul-crushing letter from an A&R guy, basically telling my friends' band to do something else. Thing is, they were first-rate musicians, one a great lead singer/guitarist, the other the songwriter. They weren't going to pass through someone's sieve. For many bands, that's the end. It more or less was with this one.

[kritikon]

Didn't come across as nasty to me. Actually fair comments as to why they rejected imo. Just a straight no is not useful or helpful, though obvs more common. Seems a bit snowflakey to not be able to take any criticism of any kind...I thought it was constructive criticism, not just having a go. And, no they have no obligation at all to be nice to you, though I thought it was polite enough. Maybe just my age and I have a thick skin...seems like some nowadays have no skin whatsoever?

[hhuang9611]

I've seen a soul-crushing letter from an A&R guy, basically telling my friends' band to do something else. Thing is, they were first-rate musicians, one a great lead singer/guitarist, the other the songwriter. They weren't going to pass through someone's sieve. For many bands, that's the end. It more or less was with this one.

Wow, that A&R’s response was so much worse and so uncalled-for. Sorry your friends had to deal with that. I really hope there can be some sort of A&R experience feedback system for big labels… (tho it hardly benefits them or signed artist, so I guess it will never happen)

[__Karlo__]

Analyze your reaction to the response and why it made you feel offended or slighted. I’ve had negative reactions from other producers critique of my work and it really rubbed me the wrong way… but then when I implemented what they suggested, it made my track waaaaay better.

Unfortunately, the label didn’t offer up much more than “improve your production” so I agree it’s not very helpful but at least you’re reasonable about the journey of improvement. Look at it this way - all the other rejections you got from the other labels were passive aggressive and not helpful at all.

Good luck, and keep up the fight.

[hhuang9611]

Didn't come across as nasty to me. Actually fair comments as to why they rejected imo. Just a straight no is not useful or helpful, though obvs more common. Seems a bit snowflakey to not be able to take any criticism of any kind...I thought it was constructive criticism, not just having a go. And, no they have no obligation at all to be nice to you, though I thought it was polite enough. Maybe just my age and I have a thick skin...seems like some nowadays have no skin whatsoever?

Well, for me personally, I welcome more specific constructive criticism, like “try to use a different bass”, “your mix isn’t balanced enough”, or “the melody isn’t really working”
Those comments I would really appreciate it, because I know where I should work on.

In fact, just a couple weeks ago, I had a conversation with another A&R, basically bouncing back and forth about one of my tracks. It was a great experience, the guy offered specific criticisms and I felt like I improved a lot after. I know we shouldn’t expect A&R to actually work with musicians to get a finished track, and that’s why I feel okay with just a plain “no, thanks”
This email just give me a different vibe, it’s like they don’t care that much to give me actual feedbacks (which is fine on its own) but care enough to patronize and say my production standard is inferior.

[BJ]

This seems fine to me. It’s just advice. I watched a Timbaland twitch stream once where people could submit tracks to him for some new project and they played these tracks live on stream. Sometimes he would just stop a track 5 seconds into it and say it’s shit imagine if that happened to you instead. This guy is mild compared to that.

[VitaminD]

I wouldn't be offended by that response. Seems cordial enough to me.

If there are any questions, respond back politely inquiring what aspects they felt needed the most work.

If you are making music with the purpose to be appreciated by others (signed to a label), you need to be able to accept this and much worse criticism.

[Gavincoolguy]

You can look at any interaction from a variety of angles. As a positive dude I would read this as hey this is interesting but undercooked. They are either saying you need to work on your mixing because it's not doing your material any favors or you should consider hiring the work out. It's completely fair to say this doesn't meet my standard but it could that's a world apart from this is bad never do this to me again

[i need Help]

seems ok to me tbh.

Agreed. Also, I would welcome the specific call out of the production quality, that’s actionable feedback as opposed to the generic “Not what we’re looking for”. At least you’re not left wondering “Was it the production? Mixing? Style?”

and five years is nothing.

Also agreed. Though props on having songs signed already!

[hhuang9611]

Analyze your reaction to the response and why it made you feel offended or slighted. I’ve had negative reactions from other producers critique of my work and it really rubbed me the wrong way… but then when I implemented what they suggested, it made my track waaaaay better.

Unfortunately, the label didn’t offer up much more than “improve your production” so I agree it’s not very helpful but at least you’re reasonable about the journey of improvement. Look at it this way - all the other rejections you got from the other labels were passive aggressive and not helpful at all.

Good luck, and keep up the fight.

Thank you! This helps a lot!

This seems fine to me. It’s just advice. I watched a Timbaland twitch stream once where people could submit tracks to him for some new project and they played these tracks live on stream. Sometimes he would just stop a track 5 seconds into it and say it’s shit imagine if that happened to you instead. This guy is mild compared to that.

wow, that's brutal. yeah, I guess this reply is nothing compared to being trashed live on stream.

I wouldn't be offended by that response. Seems cordial enough to me.

If there are any questions, respond back politely inquiring what aspects they felt needed the most work.

If you are making music with the purpose to be appreciated by others (signed to a label), you need to be able to accept this and much worse criticism.

True. I should toughen up my skin a bit more. I think they probably won't actually offer feedback to my track tho, A&Rs are usually too busy to comment on rejected tracks.

You can look at any interaction from a variety of angles. As a positive dude I would read this as hey this is interesting but undercooked. They are either saying you need to work on your mixing because it's not doing your material any favors or you should consider hiring the work out. It's completely fair to say this doesn't meet my standard but it could that's a world apart from this is bad never do this to me again

Thank you very much! Viewing from this angle does help!

seems ok to me tbh.

Agreed. Also, I would welcome the specific call out of the production quality, that’s actionable feedback as opposed to the generic “Not what we’re looking for”. At least you’re not left wondering “Was it the production? Mixing? Style?”

and five years is nothing.

Also agreed. Though props on having songs signed already!

Thank you. Yeah, I was left by the email wondering what's wrong with my track/production, but I think I maybe just went a bit too far and start doubting myself, like "is my idea of a good track actually bad", "do I have a bad taste in music", "have I burnt out and started going downhill"


Thanks again, everyone, for your helpful replies and discussions. After reading through the thread, I do feet a lot better. It seems that I overreacted or read a bit too much into the email. And after a few days of not making music, I did some critical listening to the track again with a pair of fresh ears and actually decided to make a few tweaks to the mixing. The track is now on its way to the next label managed by one of my favorite DJs. Fingers crossed!

[vurt]

as you say, they're usually too busy to comment on rejections, often they don't even reply.
the fact you got a reply at all, take it as encouragement.
they obviously hear something they like, as they are not closing the door for future demos

[Shabdahbriah]

^^^ that ^^^