Any advice on "layering"

[osiris]

I also want to add: Save your work. Don't count on Auto Save and if you get to a point where you hear something you like, Save it! Too many times I've got something sounding great, but I'm thinking I can make it better and I end up destroying it with no way to go back to the good thing. I try and make it a habit now. Something gels, I save. I even save a differently named copy so I can go back if I need to.

[eLawnMust]

Well, I ain't givin' anybody advice...I am just thinking to myself...

Layering, layering...First thing I think of is makin' more tracks (or sub-tracks depending on sequencer). When I hear rumors of '5 kicks' layered or 'multiple octaves layered' I feel there is a limited range of musical knowledge thus driving strange 'layering'....

Best to increase one's station in the music game & instead enrich your tunes with compound chords instead of triads or worse yet just 'octave hits'. In this way you will find you can layer triads onto different triads for a rich 'layering' without having to give a thought about 'layering'...

For instance if you play a C major (triad) then play a G major (triad) on top of the C you get a C maj9th add thusly an F# ontop moving towards another triad you gotta C maj11th THEN if adding the top A you then have a D major (triad) ontop of the C & the G...

And YES, Your music will begin to sound different but in a good way, like a fusion or jazz-rock way but you will have more freedom in it & you can incorporate your same rhythm patterns for familiarity & popularity amongst internet associates...

And if you are lucky enough to break free you can just say to hell with the associates & affirm " I like this new frontier!!" & crack on to different musical arenas where the music 'layers itself'...No worries mate....

[osiris]

My last word is you should engage the Producer as a collaborator. If they say needs more layering, ask where and what.

[JMTee_]

Thanks again for all the info, sounds like it's more "art" than "science"
Here's the track in question, I uploaded the instrumental version and also a vocal version, not sure specifically where layering could help with these tracks:
https://jmtee.bandcamp.com/track/together-instrumental
https://jmtee.bandcamp.com/track/together-2

[zerocrossing]

Hi all,
I was given some feedback recently on a hip-hop song I produced, the feedback was to add/incorporate more layering, to make the production sound more "modern".
Any good training resources or tips on how to achieve this? I'm not super familiar with this term/technique, thanks!

That’s pretty vague and unhelpful feedback. There’s always more than one way to get to a good mix. Sometimes layers are better, sometimes it just takes more appropriate sounds, or EQ, or even just some clever compression. Sometimes the best way to make your bass sound fuller is to leave it alone and punch a hole in other tracks to give it space. The mistake I always hear is that people do this with lower frequencies, but forget that a lot of what makes bass great happens in higher frequencies as well.

[kritikon]

Thanks again for all the info, sounds like it's more "art" than "science"
Here's the track in question, I uploaded the instrumental version and also a vocal version, not sure specifically where layering could help with these tracks:
https://jmtee.bandcamp.com/track/together-instrumental
https://jmtee.bandcamp.com/track/together-2

Not sure myself where "layering" is particularly needed in your track. There don't seem to be any great bare areas or holes . I could see where some label or other might not like the particular style of mixing - possibly the drums could be squashed together more to give a more cohesive feel - some sampled drumloops have the bejeesus compressed out of them until they're almost flatline, yours are a bit on the clean side - though that's a matter of personal choice/style - they're not wrong, just maybe not quite the aggressive hyper-compressed feel of much hiphop out there. But I quite like those 2 pads which play off each other - 1 strong and one weak - has impact IMO. Possibly your bass is a bit all over the place, and could be fine-tuned with levels/mix, but not layering.

TBH the layering advice seems a bit weird to me. None of the sounds are weak where they're not supposed to be. I'd maybe listen to some music released from that studio/label to see what style they do. Might just be a completely different vibe to what you do and they can't just think of a polite way to just say no...?

[JMTee_]

thanks for the feedback, the feedback on layering was from a Reddit forum where you can post music to get feedback. I'm just doing music as a hobby and trying to get better at recording and mixing/mastering so I post new songs on Reddit to get suggestions for improvement, but thanks for all the feedback and input on this thread, a lot to consider!

[vurt]

maybe ask them for an example of what they mean?
at least then we have the two different tracks to compare

[thecontrolcentre]

Using a reference track could be very helpful here. I thought the bass drum/ breakbeat could do with a bit more "thump", but I don't really think any layering is needed.

[kritikon]

Reddit can be a bit like here at kvr. Some sensible music, some experience, but also some loud newbs who just go on what little they've learned off YouTube. It goes through phases here where trendy nonsense gets spouted as gospel - which is why some of the layering garbage has been slapped down. There was a phase here when there were multiple threads about layering kicks, sometimes ridiculous amounts. Obvious garbage but touted as real insider pro tricks - nope, just YT myth.

There's a freebie compressor out now which is 4 different comps chained in a row. Now, I dl'd it cos it's free and I'll maybe give it a go, don't look a gift horse in the rectum or whatever. But likely I'll bin it unused eventually. It sells itself as an insider commonly used trick by using multiple comps in a row. Utter rubbish, by the way, but it'll be the next thing - long rows of comps and limiters. End result the same as using one heavily. Layering 3 leads to make one big one, and multiple pads was another silly trend. 16 unison voices must be better cos it's bigger - no, just means your original voice is really weak and not up to the job.

The trick is filtering out the YT shite from the genuine tips. Not always easy. Some of the garbage really is just complicating for the sake of it. Sounds to me like someone said layering because they saw it too many times in the wrong places and now believe that's how it's done. Your mix can be improved (like most of our mixes), but you have plenty enough powerful sounds and spectrum in it. Probably simple level mixing would do more than anything fancy.

[_leras]

Layering 3 leads to make one big one, and multiple pads was another silly trend. 16 unison voices must be better cos it's bigger - no, just means your original voice is really weak and not up to the job.

Your mix can be improved (like most of our mixes), but you have plenty enough powerful sounds and spectrum in it. Probably simple level mixing would do more than anything fancy.

Well, here we go... One analog voice better than layered vsts.

When layering multiple sounds, you're not necessarily just stacking the same sound. There's a very famous track that mixes a saw sound, with an organ and a piano and each add different tonalities.

If you do it right, you can be creative and make completely new and unique sounds.

All, that said, sparse mixes can allow sounds to be louder and bigger. In such a mix you can apply a lot of tricks to really fatten and pump up individual sounds, if that's what you're after. Not sure if just volume on its own always succeeds.