Why do establised geniuses like Gabriel and Ferry suck now?

[haydxn]

i see your point. i just don't see how you can actually believe that any of it matters..

so what if people think aerosmith are cool? that doesn't mean that they are saying "look, aerosmith are rock - they represent what i believe and am feeling, and they are really politically and socially relevant". what you are saying is just bloody stupid.

it doesn't matter if people are into aerosmith for any reason. what possible reason do you have for actually getting so worked up about it for? i stand by my original statement - that is the most ridiculous opinion i've ever read!

[paul minot]

After provoking this discussion in the first place, and retiring from it a couple of days ago, I have some new thoughts:

-I listened againg to "Up"--no, it doesn't suck, and indeed Gabriel is trying to pursue his muse, which is all any true artist should do. I was wrong to criticize him the way I did. I do wish it wasn't so morose, and it's still not my cup of tea, but if he has something a little more lively up his sleeve I'm quite interested. I will also check out the DVD. (Still love to fantasize about Gabe and Genesis coming together for new music, however--could make an AWESOME pop record, really!)

-Bryan Ferry's new stuff is snoozeville, but after listening to the old stuff some more I have come to the obvious conclusion that Roxy Music was a BAND first and foremost, even if Ferry's ego apparently would allow him to realize it. I'm not going to BEGIN to hope for a reunion there--frankly, Ferry no longer has that kind of ambition in him, I believe--unlike Gabriel.

-I have been working through some of my own conflicts about aging, "genius", musical fashion, etc. here, and you guys have helped. Very cool forum---KVR Audio is the greatest!!!

BTW--I thought latter-day Aerosmith was shite until they opened up the Super Bowl last year with a set of real R'n'R including "Baby Please Don't Go" (kicking ass in the process), and then performed a rousing version of "Dream On" (a song I have never even particularly liked, BTW) and Steve Tyler demonstrated that even after all these years and past self-abuse HE COULD STILL HIT THOSE HIGH NOTES--VERY impressive performance.

Peace out.

[jens]

word

[emdot_ambient]

i see your point. i just don't see how you can actually believe that any of it matters

Well, since you got my point, then your saying you can't see that it matters whether music progresses from the forms it took 30 years agol. That's fine. There are steady state believers in all times.

what you are saying is just bloody stupid.

...what possible reason do you have for actually getting so worked up about it for?

...that is the most ridiculous opinion i've ever read!

Hey, you're the one using emphatics and exclaimations. I'm not worked up. I'm simply suggesting that musically we've been repeating ourselves for way too long and that I find it amazing new generations haven't rebelled against the musical forms their parents and grandparents pioneered. If that's the stupidest idea you've ever heard, then . . . well, I don't want to get personal

[haydxn]

music gets moved on by whomsoever moves it on

if you want to move it on, go for it.

the music you listen to is what you listen to, it can be as advanced as you're willing to explore. the newest music will always be the newest music that is around, and it's up to you to find it. if society decides it wants it to take over, that's cool. even though there will be people who say "oh, that's not cool anymore now everyone likes it..."..

what you were saying is that the kids listenning to things that were cool years ago should move on and find something new. at the end of the day its all a matter of taste, and the world is not as frozen a place as you seem to make out. again; so what if everyone doesn't share your view. people don't have to stop listenning to music just because you don't think it's "pHuTUr" enough

[Kriminal]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

[kab]

I'm simply suggesting that musically we've been repeating ourselves for way too long and that I find it amazing new generations haven't rebelled against the musical forms their parents and grandparents pioneered

When its all said and done, you have 12 notes to manipulate. Thats it.

You're going to be reminiscent of something, somewhere.

[jens]

Established geniuses?

Havent they always sucked?

no

[Electric Phase]

The making of 'Up'. And the beauty of this article is that it provides ample proof for both side's points

Thanks for the link. The article was a very interesting read.

[emdot_ambient]

what you were saying is that the kids listenning to things that were cool years ago should move on and find something new. at the end of the day its all a matter of taste, and the world is not as frozen a place as you seem to make out. again; so what if everyone doesn't share your view. people don't have to stop listenning to music just because you don't think it's "pHuTUr" enough

No, that's not what I was saying. That's what you heard. (For a start, I will never use the word "pHuTUr" apart from this quote.) Yes, I did insert a bit about that in the voice of Mr. Mackey from South Park, but that was satire.

Let me see if I can simplify this:

1) Rock IS the establishment.
2) Rock is more than 30 years old.
3) There is no sign that Rock is going away.
4) That seems odd to me.
5) None of the above has anything to do with whether you, I or anyone else likes Rock.

When its all said and done, you have 12 notes to manipulate. Thats it.

Really? Ever use pitchbend or oscillator detune? And you really believe that the notes you use is the sole factor that makes up a style of musical? Mm, hm.

[Peel]

When its all said and done, you have 12 notes to manipulate. Thats it.

Argh! God I hate that line.

[vurt]

word

ok er,lollipops

[kab]

Really? Ever use pitchbend or oscillator detune? And you really believe that the notes you use is the sole factor that makes up a style of musical? Mm, hm.

Yep... an awful lot of the time, your bend or oscillation will land on one of those 12

I realize fully that my statement is extremely boiled down... however, the point I was trying to make is that everything is comeing from somewhere.. there was a comment that there has been little revolution lately in music. What is seen by pop as "revolutionary" really should be called "evolutionary".

Where are the boundary pushers now?

They exist. You'll have to dig. And keep the shovel handy, because todays mass media of a recording industry isn't going to put mass amounts of money on pushed boundaries, when it can cash in quickly on recycled tripe.

[smp]

A remix album, which will see people like Tricky and Trent Reznor having a go at various tracks from Up, is also expected in the shops towards the end of the year.

Maybe, maybe not. The Trent Reznor remix surfaced on the single for "Growing Up"(he remixed that song). I quite like the remix, but it's typical TR remixing and nothing new for him (chance to work with PG and make some cash I guess ).

Of course, I would love for all of the stuff to emerge. I'm a real sucker for remix albums

-s

[xoxos]

Still love to fantasize about Gabe and Genesis coming together for new music, however--could make an AWESOME pop record, really

yikes!

just for fun, my knowledge fo these names ~extends to 'sledgehammer,' 'shock the monkey,' 'the passion' and 's-s-sudio'

could never stand passion, was listening to kitaro and vangelis at 12 and heard it at 17, relly boring, choose not to remember why.. ut probably because it felt so much like it was designed for you to have a discrete reaction to it.

..'sledgehammer' and 'shock the monkey' are songs for weak people. one is 'i wanna help you overcome your problems,' one is 'stop being a f**king vegetable' and all i get is some guy screaming 'shock the monkey!' as if it's really important. that's not genius, that's sellnig records to morons.

and 'sudio..' never really listened to the words, always figured he was talknig abotu his studio as a woman, with like, the worst, most horrible music there is. crap song, add more horns!

not to say you're daft for enjoying them, just sharing my perspective on these 'hallowed innovators' or whatever.

all in all, their style of top 40 reminds me of gonig to a bbq last month, where i met this bass player/psych major who decided that since i was quiet, he'd analyse me.. first he drops 7 years off my perceived age, then suggests that i listen to 'rage against the machine,' because 'that music will put some aggressive spirit in you which is (a) *moi*?? and (b) "..do you always let recordings do my thinking for you??" which is sorta the gabriel/collins aesthetic.

i can't really see these guys as anything more than leftovers of an era where record companies touted more productive artists as superstars in order to sell lots of records.. oh, wait.. that era still continues...

come on, dude.. "s-s-sudio.." is there some outstanding musicianship or message in that i missed??? :p *extremely puzzled*

all i see is just some twats up there so there's an clearly delineated "up there" and a "down here"

s- s- sudioooo