Cherry Audio going NFR...

[Uncle E]

Hi everyone,

We wanted to chime in on the topic of companies going NFR (not for resale) with their software licenses. As some of you have mentioned, this can be a contentious issue, particularly in Europe where there have been legal challenges to the idea of non-transferable licenses.

In 2012, the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) issued a ruling that clarified the legality of transferring software licenses within the EU. The ruling stated that the exhaustion of distribution rights applies in cases of software license transfer, meaning that if a copy of a software program is first sold in the EU by the holder of the rights or with his consent, the rights over that copy of the software are exhausted and its distribution cannot be prohibited anymore. This includes licenses that are granted for an unlimited time and for a one-time license fee, which are regarded as equivalent to a "sale." However, there are some limitations to the transfer of licenses, including that partial transfers are not allowed, and the original licensee cannot continue to use the software himself.

https://pavlov-law.com/en/news/The%20Co ... %20allowed

It's worth noting that the NFR designation may not apply to European customers, as the CJEU ruling made it clear that the transfer of licenses is allowed within the EU. As such, companies that attempt to restrict the transfer of licenses in Europe may be in violation of EU law.

However, there are some valid reasons why a company may choose to go NFR, such as to prevent piracy and protect their intellectual property. As a user of software, it's important to carefully consider the terms of any license agreement before agreeing to them. If a company's software is NFR, it may impact your ability to resell or transfer the license to another user. However, there may be alternative options available such as purchasing a new license or using open source alternatives.

Overall, the issue of NFR software licenses is complex, and it's important for both companies and users to carefully consider their options and legal obligations before making any decisions.

Great reply by discoDSP!

[Teksonik]

If a company's software is NFR, it may impact your ability to resell or transfer the license to another user.

Obviously since NFR means: NOT for Resale.

Anyway I received a response from Cherry audio and the gist of it is they're more concerned about the manpower needed to handle license transfers than they are in doing the right thing by grandfathering in all old licenses to allow transfers (forever) as those were the conditions that were present at the time of the sale. Make sales NFR going forward if you must but making it retroactive to older licenses is abhorrent.

So.....F*ck 'em.

I'm done with them and any further discussions on the subject.

[lotus2035]

Yeah but they sound f'kin great.

[ramseysounds]

I'm done with them and any further discussions on the subject.

I bet you’re not

[anttimaatteri]

rofl at all the whiners...no mercy. its ridiculous

[BBFG#]

(Trigger warning) Some personal random thoughts and views:

Some transfers are not about money or need, but lack of use and just wanting to gift them to someone that will use them.

"Piracy" is more of an excuse than a reason for most companies. I personally believe it's nowhere close to as rampant as many companies claim, and any numbers they present are fictions projected by creative calculations. Quite a few of these companies use this just to increase a belief that they're worthy of pirating when they know they are not.

And sorry, but DiscoDSP is one of those that I personally stopped looking at once I peeled back their ambiguity towards upgrade and transfer fees. Shifty and ripe to go NFR or worse IMO. I like some of their stuff though and watch for a change in policies semi-regularly. Trying to derail the thread to make it about them though doesn't help.

Cherry Audio does have a weird little license manager but with this HB deal, it's about the cost averaging. And cost averaging is one of our best friends in this realm.

One more suggestion I doubt they would do. Reduce all the list prices by the amount of the discontinued transfer fees... (Permanently)

[sin night]

Mmm... I have a feeling there are many "unlicensed" users... I don't have any numbers/calculations to support that, it's just a strong "gut feeling". There are a lot of adult people with a job "trying to be smart and saving money". When you hear people talking (quite openly!) about how to save on football games, videogames and streaming services (either by abusing the licenses or by more illegal means), you may have a vague idea of how they would approach any other "non-material" good/service.

How many of them can be converted into paying customers is completely different subject, though! Yet, the issue does exist unfortunately...


Regarding companies policies, I think everybody has their own share of things they dislike. NRF, C/R, iLok, transfer fees, subscriptions (the list goes on and it's long)... Some people are cool with them, some accept them even if they don't like them, others avoid them like the plague.

Of course I have my opinions/preferences on these subjects; but I think that what really matters is being able to build a longterm trustworthy relation with the dev/brand, so the tools are avaible and supported for a long time.
Unless a brand completely f**ks things up (to the point that I don't even mention their names anymore... and yes, I have more than one brand in that list! the list is quite short, though!), usually I'm quite cool with whatever policy is in place, usually they are quite reasonable...


NFR is not the end of the day for me, if I like and need a product.
I prefer to know it before hand and I prefer to be able to sell/give away a license... I may have a difficult time and need every little bit of money (I don't know what life has in store for me, although I do my best to avoid making things bad)... or I may just want to get rid of something, for whatever (even non-rational) reason... and one day (hopefully as late as possible!!!) eventually I will have to pass all my gear to someone else as my legacy, and I'd like all my software to be part of that, so who inherits my gear gets the full deal and not an "incomplete" setup.


If a future product by Cherry Audio catches my interest, I will buy it, even if it's NFR... no problems with DiscoDSP, too (I have Discovery Pro, I use it from time to time and I have no plan to sell it)...


At the end of the day, I'm looking for longterm trustworthy relationships with brands, with products avaible and supported for a long time (and I keep control over versions on my systems, of course!), so I can keep using the tools I know and love and I can keep opening my old projects... NFR is not a big deal in this case (but it makes the deal less sweet, of course!).


Just my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree.

[S950]

I received a response from Cherry audio and the gist of it is they're more concerned about the manpower needed to handle license transfers

These devs are really clever. They code synths from the ground up. Multiple platforms and formats. Even code anti-piracy protections. I guess component modelling of automated license transfer functions is really difficult.

[zzz00m]

These devs are really clever. They code synths from the ground up. Multiple platforms and formats. Even code anti-piracy protections. I guess component modelling of automated license transfer functions is really difficult.

[plexuss]

These devs are really clever. They code synths from the ground up. Multiple platforms and formats. Even code anti-piracy protections. I guess component modelling of automated license transfer functions is really difficult.

Theirs is a lame excuse. And is anti-customer. They need to address the part of their business that is a constraint on supporting fair licence transfers instead of forcing their customers to mitigate it.

[NikkiA]

How many of them can be converted into paying customers is completely different subject, though! Yet, the issue does exist unfortunately...

By stopping license transfers? It'll convert *0* users, absolutely none, why would it? It won't even make it harder for the crackers.

[martinjuenke]

Is it possible that a lot of noise against Cherry NFR policy come from guys who use to sell freebie licenses (eg CA2600) in the second hand market?

[gentleclockdivider]

Is it possible that a lot of noise against Cherry NFR policy come from guys who use to sell freebie licenses (eg CA2600) in the second hand market?

CA2600 was never a freebee

[PieBerger]

Is it possible that a lot of noise against Cherry NFR policy come from guys who use to sell freebie licenses (eg CA2600) in the second hand market?

No, it's just that most people, unsurprisingly, don't like it when companies renege on existing terms. It was not well received when Xfer did it, nor Bitwig and more recently with Waves, it's nothing against Cherry Audio specifically.

[WasteLand]

Is it possible that a lot of noise against Cherry NFR policy come from guys who use to sell freebie licenses (eg CA2600) in the second hand market?

CA2600 was never a freebee

it was a freebee via plugin boutique