Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[Jac459]

Imo most Avenger presets (factory and xps) are demos to show its power and to impress.

That's a feeling I also have... Then purchasing the 5 xp was not a smart move from my side but it is done... Anyway, I purchased avenger second hand, so I am happy to give real money to the editor... They deserve it.

Imo Avenger is superior to all synths you named as for creating presets of your own,
this is the strength of Avenger and if you take a look at the new announced features of V2, you will see that most features inspire even more to create own presets and that's good.

You may be right on this one, I am not an hard-core sound maker. But most of the case, phase plant is way enough for me (especially since the new granular engine).
Twin 3 is much less powerful of course but such a pleasure to play with....

It takes some learning curve like with most
synths.
I think 3 - 10 xps give you more than enough to tweak, shape and create new sounds.
If you just want to choose and use presets
Diva or Xpand 2 might be a better choice or to remain in the same price category maybe omnisphere = Avenger + 5 xps.

Yeah, but I bought it already . Anyway, it is still a great synth even if I prefere falcon (my own taste not saying one is better than this other).

[Jac459]

As population 2, is there an efficient way to tweak the presets and if not, is there expansions that are better for that?

I only have 7 or 8 official XPs, and they're all in a similar ballpark of 15-20 SQs. The one exception is BigTone 2 which has 8.

Thanks mate, what is your favorite and why?

[noiseboyuk]

Thanks mate, what is your favorite and why?

They all have their place - I have quite a few for specific genre work when I have to do it - all good and solid, but none have totally blown me away.

The ones I actually use the most are actually two little banks I did called Sixteen, which are just collections of simple 16th arps. which I cannot seem to get enough of. That's very egotistical. (I lack the patience to program too much from scratch, but I occasionally get the itch - Avenger is a good fast synth to work with there).

[Jac459]

They all have their place - I have quite a few for specific genre work when I have to do it - all good and solid, but none have totally blown me away.

The ones I actually use the most are actually two little banks I did called Sixteen, which are just collections of simple 16th arps. which I cannot seem to get enough of. That's very egotistical. (I lack the patience to program too much from scratch, but I occasionally get the itch - Avenger is a good fast synth to work with there).

Noted with thanks !

[twal]

I wasn't attacking, but I don't have much else to say, but those videos alleviate your problem if you can understand what is actually being said. You know you can turn off arp, delete oscillator, and save presets so they aren't bloated? You can then play keys. Is that too much work? If you don't want to do that then I don't know what to tell you. Why complain about the disclaimer and the expansions, yet decided to purchase a bunch? I would seriously assess what the heck you are doing here. Do what you got to do I suppose. Seems like a waste of time.

I don't suppose you read my post. In my first question I was talking about having to cleanup the preset and suppress the unused Oscillators and Arpegiators... So yes, sending me a YouTube link where the guy is muting or soloing the unused Oscillators or effects is ... not helping to say the least. No need to waste your time "helping" me anymore lol...

I’m not Jac459, but for me an issue with so many SQs is that they’re not easily browsable when looking for a specific instrument.

In general, if I’m looking for a synth bass I’ll be browsing synth basses for a starting point, drilling down using tags to get into the ballpark. An SQ might have a terrific bass sound, but I won’t find it when I need it.

So I have some sympathy. SQs make for great demos and they’re fun with friends, but they’re not very practical. 2 or 3 per XP would be just fine.

Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. Moreover, generally when you use a preset, you will most certainly tweak it to your liking, more or less heavily.
In this context, in my current knowledge of Avenger (I have it only since one month), it is a kind of a burden to have to reverse-engineer not only one preset but a set of sounds. In order to tweak that sound in the SQ, I need to find the part of the SQ that is interesting me.

So if I breakdown by population:
1 - People creating their own presets: don't give a shit about this discussion .
2 - People also tweaking presets purchased: I am part of this population and asking for help on how to make it effectively with Avenger.
3 - People just using presets and playing with the macros buttons: Like twal I guess, won't understand the question and ask me to mute the unused sound lol.

So my question is 2-fold and absolutely not a complain and a critic, it is just a question from somebody who has made music since decades but is new to Avenger:
As population 2, is there an efficient way to tweak the presets and if not, is there expansions that are better for that?
As population 3, isn't it a problem that the synth with arguably the most elaborated presets doesn't allow you to use them commercially ? I fall partly in this category for the vocals, I'd like to be able to use the vocals without being constrained to totally change them.

It - the video- I posted was to not only to show you something you may not know but to, perhaps help you see that's it not a big deal which was to me at first until I started trying it myself. I added to it that you can delete them as well, which is something I didn't think about before. But yeah, I won't give advice if you don't want, take care.

[Jac459]

It - the video- I posted was to not only to show you something you may not know but to, perhaps help you see that's it not a big deal which was to me at first until I started trying it myself. I added to it that you can delete them as well, which is something I didn't think about before. But yeah, I won't give advice if you don't want, take care.

Thanks for clarifying. Take care too!

[AxlMaldini]

I’m not Jac459, but for me an issue with so many SQs is that they’re not easily browsable when looking for a specific instrument.

In general, if I’m looking for a synth bass I’ll be browsing synth basses for a starting point, drilling down using tags to get into the ballpark. An SQ might have a terrific bass sound, but I won’t find it when I need it.

So I have some sympathy. SQs make for great demos and they’re fun with friends, but they’re not very practical. 2 or 3 per XP would be just fine.

"An SQ might have a terrific bass sound, but I won’t find it when I need it."...

It happens that an SQ is a song in itself, with its own effects, macros, and layers of 'preset' sounds in Avenger, but when put together they sound subtly different.

You may like a bass that is not necessarily part of the 'basses' presets when you search for it in the browser, and that is because it is different within the SQ and sounds in accordance with the effects, equalization, and other changes specifically created for that SQ. Simply open the SQ, delete the other 6 oscillators except for the drums (since you can't), and leave the bass or oscillators that make it up. Then "save" it as a "custom" bass, and you're done.

[m-ac]

I always thought sequences were created with presets from that pack, is that not the case?

[twal]

Diva, Xpand 2, or omnisphere, and Avenger are completely different synths and experiences. I have a hard time wrapping my head around people that group synths together when what the user ACTUALLY gets from them is funneled into a specific experience, (yes there are certain similarities of course such as Diva to Saurus or Spire to Sylenth1 but same conditions apply- different outcomes will occur); yet of course if a master sound designer gets his hands on Dune 3 or Synthmaster One and they know EXACTLY what they are going for they can create similar (- capability discrepancies) results. But, take a beginner or novice and throw Dune 3 or Synthmaster ONE at them and they just use presets or tweak, or even sound design, the results will be different. There is no Omnisphere = Avenger + 3 expansions or whatever the case is- that's completely misleading imo.

[AxlMaldini]

I always thought sequences were created with presets from that pack, is that not the case?

The SQs are built using the presets in the pack, but depending on the style that programmers use in those SQs, the original sound can vary. Sometimes they overlap and you'll hear another bass or different master effects, equalization, macros, etc. So the bass that sounds one way in the original preset may sound completely different within the context of the SQ. That's why I suggest muting the other 6 oscillators and leaving only the one that generates the bass or lead or whatever sound you like. Then save it in your "custom expansion" and you'll always have it available to use, preserving the sound you liked within the SQ.

[Jac459]

The SQs are built using the presets in the pack,

Good to know, that's what I was wondering.

[Jac459]

There is no Omnisphere = Avenger + 3 expansions or whatever the case is- that's completely misleading imo.

I think what was meant was in term of overall value / number of presets / creative capacity.
But surely all synths are very different and brings to different creative paths.

[twal]

There is no Omnisphere = Avenger + 3 expansions or whatever the case is- that's completely misleading imo.

I think what was meant was in term of overall value / number of presets / creative capacity.
But surely all synths are very different and brings to different creative paths.

Which is all incorrect, Omnisphere plays a lot differently than Avenger and value is subjective to the individual with specific needs, creative path is different; speaking solely as preset machines they are very different, and Omnisphere is a preset master with something like a whopping 14,000 presets where as Avenger is not. So, him grouping these things together shows a lack of understanding. The reason I pointed it out is so people that happen to find the thread aren't misguided. Completely different workstations. It just amazes me, but it is what it is.

[Chipi]

[Leo1999]

Diva, Xpand 2, or omnisphere, and Avenger are completely different synths and experiences. I have a hard time wrapping my head around people that group synths together when what the user ACTUALLY gets from them is funneled into a specific experience, (yes there are certain similarities of course such as Diva to Saurus or Spire to Sylenth1 but same conditions apply- different outcomes will occur); yet of course if a master sound designer gets his hands on Dune 3 or Synthmaster One and they know EXACTLY what they are going for they can create similar (- capability discrepancies) results. But, take a beginner or novice and throw Dune 3 or Synthmaster ONE at them and they just use presets or tweak, or even sound design, the results will be different. There is no Omnisphere = Avenger + 3 expansions or whatever the case is- that's completely misleading imo.

It was not about comparing similar synths, it was about giving an alternative with lots of presets. And I added Omnisphere and compared the price, so Omnisphere = Avenger + 5 xps is a similar price and Omnisphere gives you way more presets than Avenger. A synth is just a synth, it depends on you what you do with it.
I would never consider Avenger a preset machine.
Omnisphere, Xpand2 and Diva are huge preset machines.
Avenger's Sq, AR, Voice presets, loops and drums are a waste of time for the dev and sound design guy and for the user who paid some money. Having drums and not being allowed to use them is a cheek anyway, luckily there are many drum plugins.
If you compare the sound and want to find a similar one to Avenger, Air Xpand2! is very close partially and both with big focus in 90s. Xpand2 has even more categories and the sound has even a better quality imo and better keys, strings, woodwind and brass sounds and more detailed categories for leads and pads. The big difference is I just select any preset of Xpand2 and use it without changing anything, I would never just choose and select an Avenger preset without changing a lot. As for sound-design Xpand2 is underrated, people seem to think you can't create own presets or shape sound, but you can very easily. No other synth is said to be used on that many successful music productions. No doubt Avenger is a better sound - design machine than Xpand2, but limited category - wise, so a little one-sided.
Btw you didn't get the point, so your post was a little misleading.
Haven't you noticed that KVR is a place where you can compare everything to everything?! Of course, one could compare apples to oranges (I prefer the taste of oranges, but also do like applecake - paradox? Lol), maybe try to think outside the box.