Do you allow signal pass 0VU (-18.0) when gain stage?

[chanjay]

Hi all,

Happy Friday!

I have question for all of you expert people. I am currently learning about gain staging in mixing.

I use Klanghelm VUMT for metering, calibrated at -18.0. I checked making sure that every single audio track, bus track, & master track signals; not to hit above 0VU in VUMT - pre and post effects. The result, my master output is so low and I feel like the sound is cleaner than before gain stage.

Yesterday, I played around with a compressor and found a sweet spot, but unfortunately the signal hit a little bit passed 0VU in my VUMT. I felt like I missed the juice when lowering down the gain in my compressor to keep it below 0VU.

My question: Do you strictly keep the signals below 0VU when mixing with gain stage?
or am I doing it wrong?

Thanks in advanced!

Jay.

[Cyanide Lovesong]

I hope I don't get in trouble for bumping an old post, but since you never got an answer...

1. Traditionally the point of gain staging was to maximize the signal to noise ratio when dealing with analog gear. This is less of an issue in digital. What gain staging remains is in some part related to headroom on your master bus (although you can just pull down the master bus fader or insert a trim plugin and it will be fine) -- but also so we aren't hitting analog emulation plugins too hard and getting an unexpected amount of saturation.

2. The point of "-18" in digital just a rough guide so you aren't hitting your analog emulation plugins too hard & getting more saturation/distortion than intended. Real analog hardware will saturate when you go past zero. In order to do this in digital, they have to leave enough headroom to simulate that experience of going over zero. Most companies calibrate based on analog 0 being -18dB --- but not all of them... And it's an adjustable setting in many. (Waves plugins put it behind a screw on the UI, and some bx/Lindell plugins have it in the settings.)

3. Once you understand the point of "-18" you won't need to 'calibrate' so specifically. Truth is, it's just a safe starting point. You may want to hit your analog emulation plugins harder (for more saturation) or at a lower level (for a cleaner signal.)

4. If you're happy with the sound -- as long as you're not clipping digitally you'll be fine. (And arguably with 64 bit processing, going above 0 would technically be OK up 'til your final mixdown, but I'm not well versed in this enough to explain it.)

5. Your concern with your final level being too low is because your mix is too dynamic by the time it hits your master bus... So you can't turn it up louder without clipping. By the way, don't worry about VU on the master bus -- just keep an eye on the max peaks. Don't clip. But to get the loudness you want, you need to use compression & limiting on your master bus.

6. A really good tool for someone at your level is bx_masterdesk Classic ... and it's free: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... assic.html ... Start with that. It will get you where you need to go. And once you outgrow that, you can pick up bx_masterdesk True Peak when it's on sale. It has some more settings, but keep it simple for now.

7. Once you really get the hang of this you don't want to do all the heavy lifting for loudness on the master bus. You want to manage your dynamic range on tracks & submixes as well. That way the final compression & limiting isn't so drastic and you get a smoother mix.

8. To manage dynamic range in stages -- start with each track. I personally like Scheps Omni Channel, but for where you're at I would recommend Waves Magma Channel, on each track. It's easy to operate -- with a one knob saturator, one knob compressor, one knob expander, and a simple 3 knob EQ. Then use submixes and you can use the same plugin there. The point is to control your dynamic range throughout your mix so that each successive stage sums more smoothly!

Anyhow, points 7 & 8 are probably too much right now so just stick with 1-6 and it will get you sorted out. Have fun!

[BONES]

My advice is not to worry about it at all. As Cyanide Lovesong says, gain staging was all about the old days, it has little or no relevance when you are working In The Box. Just do whatever gets you the result you're after and don't think too much about how you are getting there. If you run into a problem, deal with it when it occurs.

[BertKoor]

My question: Do you strictly keep the signals below 0VU when mixing with gain stage?
or am I doing it wrong?

Do you keep an eye on the peaks (wrong) or only the average (right) ?

[MidnightRunner]

I think Sonic Scoop explained it really well.