Valhalla Room vs Vintage Verb

[Bombadil]

I've watched a number of YT vids, and can't decide. Is there any consensus re which is the 'better' plugin? I've already splashed out for VDelay and ÜberMod. I don't want to have a lot of overlap, so I don't think I'll be buying all 3 of their paid verbs.
'Better' = versatility, sitting well in a mix, simplicity in manipulating parameters.
Thanks.

[El°HYM]

Actually VV into VR is a pretty good combo for creating ethereal soundscapes.

[PieBerger]

They are both excellent, but if you really have to choose, I think Vintage takes the edge, because it can do cleaner spaces if you need them, but also more grungy and, wait for it, vintage, stuff . Room only covers you for clean/modern spaces.

Edit: I started with Vintage first, because of its versatility and then added Room later, for a little more variety and to support the dev. I'm not super into plate reverbs, so I skipped Plate and I grabbed ShimmerVerb on sale so no need to ValhallaShimmer!

[escalona]

I find VV more versatile and I find Rooms easier (maybe faster rather then easier) to work with.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I think VintageVerb is the more versatile/"better" option IMO. It's got more algorithms, they cover everything from ambiences to plates to massive halls, they're based mostly on classic Lexicon topologies, which are pretty standard in pop/rock music from the late 70s to today...

I still use it all the time despite having lots of other options, some much costlier. Room, I almost never touch.

[GaryG]

I used to have both but rarely used Room. It certainly has a more 'natural' sound if you listen critically but I found for my purposes (more effected styles) Vintage did what I need. As you're probably aware, Delay and Ubermod can both do interesting reverb-like effects too.

So Vintage, Delay and Ubermod are my staple 'time based' effects, rarely need much else these days.

[LFO8]

I've watched a number of YT vids, and can't decide. Is there any consensus re which is the 'better' plugin? I've already splashed out for VDelay and ÜberMod. I don't want to have a lot of overlap, so I don't think I'll be buying all 3 of their paid verbs.
'Better' = versatility, sitting well in a mix, simplicity in manipulating parameters.
Thanks.

Did you try the demo's of both plugins for yourself?

[Bombadil]

Just downloaded them.

[LFO8]

Have fun! They both are very intuitive and sound great.

[jens]

Room only covers you for clean/modern spaces.

nah... that was only true for the four initial algos (it's twelve since 2015 or so and all eight he added later are downsampled)...

Sean already wrote in June of 2011:

Honestly, I don't know what prompted me to put a deliberately lo-fi reverb mode into ValhallaRoom. All of the original algorithms were designed to avoid grainy artifacts, while the new Dark Room mode deliberately adds grain and murk.

So you're basically 12 years late with that post.

[cryophonik]

Room was the first Valhalla reverb I bought and it's great, but I also use it more for "natural" or "real" spaces, even though I'm sure it can go far beyond that. VV is my go-to for spaces that are obviously unnatural and more...."flavored"?

[PieBerger]

Room only covers you for clean/modern spaces.

nah... that was only true for the four initial algos (it's twelve since 2015 or so and all eight he added later are downsampled)...

Sean already wrote in June of 2011:

Honestly, I don't know what prompted me to put a deliberately lo-fi reverb mode into ValhallaRoom. All of the original algorithms were designed to avoid grainy artifacts, while the new Dark Room mode deliberately adds grain and murk.

So you're basically 12 years late with that post.

I stand corrected, thank you!

From the blurb on the Valhalla site:

"Dark Room: A departure from the high fidelity path taken by the original 4 reverb modes in ValhallaRoom. It is deliberately low-fi, with noisy interpolation, no high frequencies above 11kHz..."

With this in mind, I'll retract my comment about Vintage being more versatile, but I would like add, that with fewer parameters to tweak I find it a bit easier to work with compared to Room and as such I tend to reach for Vintage more often as a result.

Edit: used link instead of italic

[Ploki]

one critical difference is that Room can do ER/Late separately (depth slider), while VVV cant.
For really short ambience, that’s crucial.

[kritikon]

I had exactly the same decision a couple of yrs ago. I went with Vintage because it seemed to cover the most ground for general uses. I don't want shitloads of plugins that end up not being used, so made a conscious choice for 1 reverb alone. VV fits the bill, whereas room seemed just that bit more specialized. I make mostly dance-oriented electronic stuff, leaning more to techno/acid kinda stuff, but also do a fair bit of dub and electrodub, slow trancey things and occasionally ambient very slow washy stuff. VV works for all of this for me. I guess for other styles it might be different t - eg if you do real instrument music then Room might make more sense?

Obvs I got Supermassive, being free, and actually I think I'd happily use it as a main reverb. I played around with it shortening the tails and it worked surprisingly well even for ambience etc, though definitely more limited. Though best as a massive reverb/delay.

Ploki mentioned ER/tail - that's important and I do miss that in VV, but again it depends on what you use it for. I can do without it, for the sake of buying more plugins (mind you, at $50 it hardly breaks the bank)

So I'll go with consensus - VV for most versatility.

[jens]

From the blurb on the Valhalla site:

"Dark Room: A departure from the high fidelity path taken by the original 4 reverb modes in ValhallaRoom. It is deliberately low-fi, with noisy interpolation, no high frequencies above 11kHz..."

Yes, and besides the three "Dark"-modes there's also:

- Two new reverb modes: Nostromo and Narcissus

- Both reverb modes are "dark," and have the features/quirks of older reverbs (i.e. no high frequency content above 11 kHz, sparser initial echo density, somewhat noisier modulation)
- Nostromo is designed for HUGE, expansive spaces.
- Narcissus is "smaller," but still sounds big. It is also the lightest on the CPU of all the ValhallaRoom algorithms.


A summary of the two new reverb modes, Nostromo and Narcissus: For starters, they are both dark. In some ways, they are closest to Dark Room, in that they have similar filtering, use random modulation (as opposed to detuning modulation), deliberately noisy delay line interpolation, and a sparser early echo density, that can be transformed into a properly dense reverb with a wide spatial image by setting Early Send to 1.0 and Early Size to >100 msec.

The big difference between Nostromo/Narcissus and Dark Room is how the echo density builds over time. Dark Room starts off pretty sparse, but then builds rapidly. Nostromo and Narcissus have a slower build at a similar setting of Late Size. The slower build also results in lower CPU, but I did it more for the sonic results than CPU usage.

Nostromo is the biggest of all the reverbs in ValhallaRoom, in term of resonance density, as well as the perceived distance of the walls from each other. Dark Chamber and Dark Space have similar resonance density, but a much higher initial echo density, which implies walls that are closer together - think a shoebox-shaped space, or a large room with lots of clutter in it. Nostromo has a very low initial echo density, that builds slowly over time. At high settings of Late Size, you can clearly hear discrete echoes. When I originally built ValhallaRoom, I wanted to avoid these echoes at all cost - but after I got my PCM70 and played with high Definition settings in the Concert Hall algorithm, I realized how a sparse echo density can work spacey wonders with the right input source.

Narcissus doesn't sound nearly as big. That's because it is essentially 1/2 of Nostromo, with the delays 1/2 as long. So the echo density builds quicker, and the modulation is more dramatic. It still sounds BIG for a reverb, but small compared to Nostromo. Narcissus is also the lowest CPU mode in ValhallaRoom, by a long shot. For anyone who wished that ValhallaRoom used less CPU, well, here's the reverb mode to try.

To my surprise, the reduction in complexity for Narcissus resulted in a reverb mode that still sounds great, especially with larger Late Size settings and a fair amount of modulation. The algorithm isn't based on any Lexicon stuff, but it is the closest to the classic Concert Hall algorithm as I will get with this plugin. Very different under the hood, but a similar sense of spaciousness and washiness.

As the names would suggest, Nostromo and Narcissus are both focused on producing the sound of space. Not a physical space, just deep space. Interstellar space. "That's not our system" space.

[...]
Narcissus is an interesting algorithm, in that it is closest in complexity and architecture to the VintageVerb algorithms - i.e. fairly simple, and low on CPU. I might create a variant of it for VintageVerb, as varying the Late Diffusion would allow for a number of interesting sounds, and the early reflections/energy section would be much different than the architecture used in VRoom.




New reverb mode: Sulaco

Dark, somewhat sparser than other reverb modes, with lush modulation
Wide range of control over Late Size, to dial in tight rooms, huge spaces, and all sorts of things in between
Tighter stereo image than other VRoom modes, with Late Cross controlling the initial spread of energy between channels.




- New reverb mode: LV-426. In keeping with the Alien theme, this is a deep dark space verb. It is kind of a cross between Nostromo and Narcissus, but with a far higher earlier echo density than either of those reverbs. The LATE LowMult/Xover and LATE HighMult/Xover filters have been moved to a location where they act as tone controls. Values of LowMult less than 1.0 allow you to dial in reverbs with less low frequency energy, and the LowXover control being used to adjust the crossover freq of the low cut/boost.


The overall sound of the LV-426 mode is like a cross between Nostromo and Narcissus, but with a much higher initial echo density than either of those modes, and a more diffuse randomized modulation. I have gotten some cool "digital" plates, lush halls, and huge spaces out of the mode, while using the Bass Mult/Xover settings to keep the low end from becoming too obtrusive.[...]
Right now, it is my current favorite of all the Dark modes. The Alien modes (Nostromo, Narcissus, Sulaco, and LV-426) probably could have been a new plugin, as they have taken the original "room" focus of the plugin into some darker and spacier places.
I feel that the Large Room, Large Chamber and Dark Chamber modes are the best representatives of the "room" side of VahallaRoom, and the rest of the modes are good at bright and spacey (Bright Room, LV-426) or dark and deep (Dark Room, Dark Space).




- New reverb mode: Dense Room

Dense Room in ValhallaRoom is technically a "Dark" algorithm, in that it is downsampled. So there is a 11 khz to 12 kHz brickwall filter there. However, everything else about the algorithm is bright: it uses bright delay interpolation, and the High Cut filter is only -6 dB / oct (the other algorithms use a -12 dB / oct filter for High Cut). The shallower slope of the High Cut filter allows you to have a heavier hand when making use of it. Bringing the High Cut into the 2 kHz to 4 kHz range will not create an outrageously dull sound with Dense Room, and it might create a more realistic room sound.