v5 Browser regressions

[Enrize]

I would like to outline some regressions with the new browser in hope more people will report it to the Bitwig developers.

1. Menu for playback sync options instead of a button. I can't see any reason about this change. The menu has only 2 options which is perfectly fine to toggle with a button (how it was before since the beginning). Could anyone provide at least one reason why we need a menu now? I always change this during the work and now i need to do more clicks.



2. Limit the items in the browser to 2000 in the list. Why? Again...it wasn't like this before. I have over 100 000 samples in my library and i want to see it all.



3. Unable to toggle preview of a sample with a key. In previous versions i toggled on/off with a right arrow key. When you preview your samples with up/down arrow keys it was convenient to repeat/stop with an arrow key. Now its gone.

Please add your findings...but remember i would like to keep it only to regressions.

[nekavoq]

I mentioned this in another thread, so I'll paraphrase it here:

New popup browser:


Old popup browser:


A) New source dependent alphabetical sorting; new popup browser sort separates Bitwig native and third party devices, a sorting distinction that I feel is unneeded (in my opinion) as a user.

It's bizarre to see Addictive Drums at the bottom when a user would expect it at the top, as it IS alphabetically sorted, but meaninglessly distinguishes the sort between native & third party devices; even though third party devices clearly already have an indicator on the icon like in the old browser anyways.

B) Filter menu downgrade (takes longer with more actions to find something); it was easier to sort and filter on the old browser as device location, file type, category, and creator was immediately visible and selectable.

New browser requires you to select the menu (file kind, category, creator, etc) you wish to filter before making the menu visible, and only displays a single menu at a time.

C) Filter menu losing contextual items, device + template bloat; Category also now merges instrument categories with template categories, severely lengthening the list within Category and losing contextual distinction between devices and templates.

Compounded with only having a single menu visible in the new browser, this in my opinion makes it much messier and difficult to find a instrument I wish to use. Merging devices and templates could be a good idea if the UX to find the device or template was designed to handle larger messier sets of items (merging devices and templates would probably do fine on the old browser).

From the old browser to the new browser, to me this was like having 2 neatly set up drawers, and then haphazardly emptying them out into a single plastic bag.

Overall I genuinely do wish that Bitwig allows us to use the old browser or replicates the UX of the old browser as a separate option if these don't get addressed. It's just baffling to me as these latter 2 changes to efficiency seem to be done in favour of... wider space for device/template names? I guess you can see long template names now?

[pdxindy]

Overall I genuinely do wish that Bitwig allows us to use the old browser or replicates the UX of the old browser as a separate option if these don't get addressed. It's just baffling to me as these latter 2 changes to efficiency seem to be done in favour of... wider space for device/template names? I guess you can see long template names now?

What you call 40% wasted space I used by making the filter column wider and the popup browser itself a bit narrower.

[pdxindy]

A) New source dependent alphabetical sorting; new popup browser sort separates Bitwig native and third party devices, a sorting distinction that I feel is unneeded (in my opinion) as a user.

It's bizarre to see Addictive Drums at the bottom when a user would expect it at the top, as it IS alphabetically sorted, but meaninglessly distinguishes the sort between native & third party devices; even though third party devices clearly already have an indicator on the icon like in the old browser anyways.

Doesn't seem bizarre to me. It is a clear sort order and makes as much sense as the old way. You are just used to how it was.

[pdxindy]

B) Filter menu downgrade (takes longer with more actions to find something); it was easier to sort and filter on the old browser as device location, file type, category, and creator was immediately visible and selectable.

New browser requires you to select the menu (file kind, category, creator, etc) you wish to filter before making the menu visible, and only displays a single menu at a time.

I can see your point that if you commonly used multiple filters at once, having them all visible would be an advantage.

My impression is that there were plenty of complaints that the old browser with all the filters visible was too complicated looking and maybe most people didn't use them. I know I hardly used them. I mostly created collections and typed from there and that was super fast. I can still do that.

[pdxindy]

1. Menu for playback sync options instead of a button. I can't see any reason about this change. The menu has only 2 options which is perfectly fine to toggle with a button (how it was before since the beginning). Could anyone provide at least one reason why we need a menu now? I always change this during the work and now i need to do more clicks.

Indeed the return of a button would be better. The only reason a menu would make sense is if they expected to add to it. Not clear what option they would add to it, but even so, it can still be a button until that time arrives.

[nekavoq]

A) New source dependent alphabetical sorting; new popup browser sort separates Bitwig native and third party devices, a sorting distinction that I feel is unneeded (in my opinion) as a user.

It's bizarre to see Addictive Drums at the bottom when a user would expect it at the top, as it IS alphabetically sorted, but meaninglessly distinguishes the sort between native & third party devices; even though third party devices clearly already have an indicator on the icon like in the old browser anyways.

Doesn't seem bizarre to me. It is a clear sort order and makes as much sense as the old way. You are just used to how it was.

Genuine question, but how does the new sort order improve your workflow? I don't mean to be glib, I'm genuinely curious as to why you'd specifically want to see Bitwig native devices first before the rest of your devices.

To me they're all instruments, or they're all FX, etc etc. I don't see any good reason to sort native ones first, as they're already easily recognizable as to which is native or third party with the graphic on the icons. But the confusing sort order is something that genuinely irks me.

The way I see it, it's an arbitrary change at best, and confusing at worst. It's by no means a change to improve the UX in any shape or form, but rather a decision to change for the sake of changing something.

[nekavoq]

B) Filter menu downgrade (takes longer with more actions to find something); it was easier to sort and filter on the old browser as device location, file type, category, and creator was immediately visible and selectable.

New browser requires you to select the menu (file kind, category, creator, etc) you wish to filter before making the menu visible, and only displays a single menu at a time.

I can see your point that if you commonly used multiple filters at once, having them all visible would be an advantage.

My impression is that there were plenty of complaints that the old browser with all the filters visible was too complicated looking and maybe most people didn't use them. I know I hardly used them. I mostly created collections and typed from there and that was super fast. I can still do that.

I use it quite a bit for templates. For example, I want a 'Bass' template by a creator, let's say my own preset template, so 'Bass' category + 'nekavoq' creator for example.

Old browser would've been 2 clicks to see it filtered (clicking category and the creator, all immediately visible and easy to find); new browser would be 2 clicks for category, and 2 clicks for creator (one click to activate the menu, one click to select the specific item, in what is now a bloated list each as it now includes device categories/creators as well)

I only made this account after trying version 5's beta because the browser specifically irked me, so I'm completely not in the loop as to what people thought of the old browser, I'm speaking entirely from personal experience independent of other opinions.

I'm also not implying I'm objectively right, if you're totally cool with the new browser I'm genuinely happy for you, just would love an option that retains some of the efficiencies of the old browser for users that might find the new browser to be a downgrade.

[BobDog]

I also thing they should be listed alphabetically, I will send a request to BW as well...

[pdxindy]

Genuine question, but how does the new sort order improve your workflow? I don't mean to be glib, I'm genuinely curious as to why you'd specifically want to see Bitwig native devices first before the rest of your devices.

To me, it is neutral. Not a benefit or loss. Just a different choice. Alphabetical was never my preference in the first place anyway. Most used would be my choice if that were possible. Doesn't matters much to me anyway cause I have a default filter set and then I type 2-3 letters, down arrow and return and my device/plugin of choice is added without even looking at the popup browser.

[pdxindy]

I use it quite a bit for templates. For example, I want a 'Bass' template by a creator, let's say my own preset template, so 'Bass' category + 'nekavoq' creator for example.

Old browser would've been 2 clicks to see it filtered (clicking category and the creator, all immediately visible and easy to find); new browser would be 2 clicks for category, and 2 clicks for creator (one click to activate the menu, one click to select the specific item, in what is now a bloated list each as it now includes device categories/creators as well)

The new browser will require new workflows. For sure, you try to do it the old way, it is slower.

In your example, I would make a smart collection based on a search via text 'template' + 'nekavoq' creator. Then one click on that smart collection would show all your templates. That is less clicks than before.

The new browser requires some rethinking and reorganizing, but I think it will end up faster cause it does not segregate stuff.

[iowastate89]

Wonder if they could offer a "classic" view; I much prefer the old workflow

[pdxindy]

Wonder if they could offer a "classic" view; I much prefer the old workflow

My guess is that the likelihood of that is near zero.

[Teksonik]

Wonder if they could offer a "classic" view; I much prefer the old workflow

That would be great. The new browser is a mess in my opinion. It's the perfect example of a destructive update.

With Beta 5, I had to completely rebuild the collections in my plugin database and so far it's holding up as in earlier Betas it would randomly change colors and order of display.

But still there is no way to display my plugins as they were before. You still have to click the pop-out to get to collections....every time. The old way was incredibly efficient for adding plugins albeit still lacking common features like being able to change display names of plugins so for example Spire 1.5 simply becomes Spire, Hive (x64) becomes Hive and so on without having to manually rename them every time you load them.

I never received a response to my bug report and that was back on Beta 3 so it looks like they're saying "here's a new browser, like or lump it". Without any direct contact with the BW team there's just no way to know what's going on.

So yea I agree the new browser is a regression.

No, I'm not interested in hearing from the resident fanboi who is stuck in perpetual defense of DAW mode.

[Trancit]

But the new browser is a bit weird about sorting in general...

For VST´s it´s mostly alphabetical from A-Z but i.e. my kiloHearts plugins with "kHs" in the front are sorted all together below Z, while Multipass/Snapheap and others without the abreviation are listed in between the other plugins alphabetically...

Second, it´s atm the moment not possible without a user collection to show just all devices...
It´s just all devices + presets or just Bitwig natives or VST/CLAP but not Bitwig + VST/CLAP without presets...