Live 11 sloooooow vst scanning
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 26 Mar, 2022
The -NoVstStartupScan option still worked in version 11.2.7, I believe, but not later. I agree that this routine scan of the VST's and user folders is a No-Go. It takes me 2 minutes to start. In the program itself, the hard disk only becomes quiet after 5-10 minutes. Every time I switch off the scanner in the preference right after the start.
Compared to other DAWs, such as Renoise, the heavy CPU load with VST plugins is also noticeable. In general, one can say that it is double the utilization. In addition, the division of the audio threads has been solved in such a way that one core is used per track. If one of them is overloaded, the whole output collapses. Not only are there dropouts, but the entire program becomes unresponsive. That really shouldn't happen. Other programs still provide enough performance for the GUI. Probably to do with "Max for Live" which is heavily integrated into the audio backend, or maybe even represents the backend. Max for Live is Max MSP, which is itself a modular audio system. The VST's could be loaded inside Max with a wrapper. The creation of new tracks, audio paths, loading samples etc. would also be created in this context, which takes time. That would explain, at least from my point of view, why Live reacts so slow. The GUI seems to be just a frontend and is not the problem. The only way is to pimp up your computer.
But coming back to the question about the plugin scan: Couldn't it be that Ableton doesn't want you to use "a lot of plugins" that break this modular system? - Fewer plugins are also scanned faster. Integrating an option to disable the scan is an easy task, but they obviously don't want that.
I use the Lite 11 version, which I really can't complain about because it came free with the hardware and really offers a lot in return. But since the problem seems to be inherent in the system, I would probably not buy the full version for now, because my i5 Quad/12 GB RAM is not enough to run 16 tracks with half of them being VST instruments.
Compared to other DAWs, such as Renoise, the heavy CPU load with VST plugins is also noticeable. In general, one can say that it is double the utilization. In addition, the division of the audio threads has been solved in such a way that one core is used per track. If one of them is overloaded, the whole output collapses. Not only are there dropouts, but the entire program becomes unresponsive. That really shouldn't happen. Other programs still provide enough performance for the GUI. Probably to do with "Max for Live" which is heavily integrated into the audio backend, or maybe even represents the backend. Max for Live is Max MSP, which is itself a modular audio system. The VST's could be loaded inside Max with a wrapper. The creation of new tracks, audio paths, loading samples etc. would also be created in this context, which takes time. That would explain, at least from my point of view, why Live reacts so slow. The GUI seems to be just a frontend and is not the problem. The only way is to pimp up your computer.
But coming back to the question about the plugin scan: Couldn't it be that Ableton doesn't want you to use "a lot of plugins" that break this modular system? - Fewer plugins are also scanned faster. Integrating an option to disable the scan is an easy task, but they obviously don't want that.
I use the Lite 11 version, which I really can't complain about because it came free with the hardware and really offers a lot in return. But since the problem seems to be inherent in the system, I would probably not buy the full version for now, because my i5 Quad/12 GB RAM is not enough to run 16 tracks with half of them being VST instruments.
Last edited by KLANGRAUM2 on Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35449 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Nope, not even slightly.KLANGRAUM2 wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:46 am Probably to do with "Max for Live" which is heavily integrated into the audio backend, or maybe even represents the backend.
None of these assumptions are correct, so no that's not the explanation.Max for Live is Max MSP, which is itself a modular audio system. The VST's could be loaded inside Max with a wrapper. The creation of new tracks, audio paths, loading samples etc. would also be created in this context, which takes time. That would explain, at least from my point of view, why Live reacts so slow.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 3017 posts since 8 Jun, 2018
at some point, i don't remember, scanning vst plugins happens after loading Live. (i mean they changed it.)
before, normal scan rate, and now again normal scan rate, even faster sometimes than Reaper or others.
windows 10, Live 11 Suite, latest version.
virussanners? some plugins do stall scanning, etc. so not everyone has this problem. which doesn't make it not a problem of course, for the people affected.
before, normal scan rate, and now again normal scan rate, even faster sometimes than Reaper or others.
windows 10, Live 11 Suite, latest version.
virussanners? some plugins do stall scanning, etc. so not everyone has this problem. which doesn't make it not a problem of course, for the people affected.
Primoridal Music: sadà\exposadà - Indusrial & Expanding Your Mind Hurts: Sound Brut
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 26 Mar, 2022
The scanning of plugins and folders cannot be switched off by definition. It runs on every startup and makes the DAW very sluggish, at least while the scans are running. To what extent Max for Live something screwing on the performance remains speculation. To be fair, I have to backtrack a bit on my last post. There were other background processes hogging my system. Windows real-time virus scan and the Virtual Box Launcher Application idled in background and reserved the CPU partly.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5440 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki
Noticed that this thread was rehabilitated.
Live 11 changed (or maybe I managed to tweak the settings) the way the vst plugin scan is implementeed when you start the session.
Anyway in Win 10/11 when the Live 11 is openef and the scanning happens now in the background. You can start your work immedetely.
Live 11 changed (or maybe I managed to tweak the settings) the way the vst plugin scan is implementeed when you start the session.
Anyway in Win 10/11 when the Live 11 is openef and the scanning happens now in the background. You can start your work immedetely.
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- KVRAF
- 2195 posts since 8 Jan, 2005
I also don't experience anything like that. Open Live, it spins for a couple of seconds, it's ready to go.... also after installing a new plugin
MacMini M2 Pro …… MacOS Tahoe ……… Reason 14
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- KVRAF
- 1618 posts since 15 Aug, 2001 from montreal, canada
I'm able to work fairly quickly after bootup (few seconds) since I have a decent PC (with an SSD). However, it also scans for about a minute in the background for plugins even though I have no new plugins installed. I do however have a fair amount of plugins already installed (vst2/vst3).
Stuck in Aperture Laboratories for a 2nd time!
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
It takes Live 11 scan a few minutes to show any newly installed plugin that I desire to have a play with right away. Other DAWs are much faster to scan new plugins. I do have a fair amount of vst2/3 plugins installed, but that shouldn't affect the time it takes to scan a single new plugin, should it? Those have already been scanned previously.
Annoying, and I have a relatively fast CPU and all of my plugins are installed on M.2 SSD.
Even without fixing the plugin scanner, you would think they could just add a way to browse to a new plugin and just scan that one file.
Annoying, and I have a relatively fast CPU and all of my plugins are installed on M.2 SSD.
Even without fixing the plugin scanner, you would think they could just add a way to browse to a new plugin and just scan that one file.
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRAF
- 43985 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from clown world
I think this helps but I can't be 100% sure without really testing it.
If I have just installed a new plugin, I'll type its name in the plugin browser. At first Live won't see it but it seems to hone in on it and completes the scan quicker than scanning all plugins alphabetically before it.
I might just be kidding myself but give it a go and see if it works for you.
If I have just installed a new plugin, I'll type its name in the plugin browser. At first Live won't see it but it seems to hone in on it and completes the scan quicker than scanning all plugins alphabetically before it.
I might just be kidding myself but give it a go and see if it works for you.
This is the same method MJ used when he was working on Anthony Marinelli's Thriller.
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
I'll give that a shot! Sounds like it may work.Aloysius wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:30 pm I think this helps but I can't be 100% sure without really testing it.
If I have just installed a new plugin, I'll type its name in the plugin browser. At first Live won't see it but it seems to hone in on it and completes the scan quicker than scanning all plugins alphabetically before it.
I might just be kidding myself but give it a go and see if it works for you.
Wonder how the search function will behave if the plugin is a new version of an already existing plugin (same name)?
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRian
- 705 posts since 25 Nov, 2010
Had slow scanning problem at upstart before. Seems to have been fixed for me since a couple of months ago.
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 26 Mar, 2022
Made a PowerShell script to address the issue. Here is a Short video demonstration with 20 sec. turbo start. The script can be started simply with a double click, even if you are not an Administrator. Just change the path to your Live executable in the code. Download link to the script and some notes are in the Short video description.