Sad state of Native Instruments

[eerie_audio]

NI development of new and innovative instruments is in a sad state compared to their golden era when they made Reaktor, Absynth, Massive, Kore and lastly Maschine. From there they have been regurgitating sample libraries and trying to keep some of their software up to date.

Don't forget their Kontakt libraries disguised as romplers.

[monolithx]

You can say anything, but NI is still very far from "the company is in a sad state." And not only from a business point of view, because with their products they are useful to everyone - old-school synth experimenters, professional composers and those who obsessed with EDM.

"old-school synth experimenters", Reaktor? In today's world, it's just another modular (with no MPE?). I don't find it "creative" in the intuitive way. Just a bunch of standard modules. Or do they plan to produce some other "Exeprimental gear" expansion?
"professional composers", these ones have already switched to ChatGPT to get their chords.
"obsessed with EDM"... pads & loops.

From NI:
"MASCHINE lets you effortlessly produce beats, melodies, and harmonies with powerful drum synths, premium sounds, an integrated sampler, and more – cutting-edge software meets intuitive hardware for ultra-smooth workflow." $$$$, "ultra-smooth", like their development timeline

[gentleclockdivider]

"old-school synth experimenters", Reaktor? In today's world, it's just another modular (with no MPE?). I don't find it "creative" in the intuitive way. Just a bunch of standard modules.

I think the problem lies with you , reaktor is far more than just another modular (blocks) .
You’re just using a tiny subset of it’s capabilities ,learn reaktor core

[Scotty]

They’ve done some tough work albeit at a slower pace than I woukd have liked the VST3 support and Apple silicon support must have been very calleng8bf given the age of the code, I am guessing but I’ll think we’ll see some new effects and synths now that this work has been done.

[rod_zero]

Reaktor was made more than 20 years ago, then refined. it is so good and was so ahead of its time that it remains relevant and a huge playground, it is a testament of the genius of NI founders.

Almost each product of Ni up until Maschine was really ground breaking for the industry or became the industry standard. Many innovative products died in the road as Kore, Guitar rig hardware and some synths which didn't get updates as Absynth, Pro5, the modeled organs (forgot the name of the product).

I think Maschine really broke the company, as in it changed the direction, Maschine software itself remains underdeveloped while the company concentrated more and more on libraries.

[Hammy Havoc]

Reaktor was made more than 20 years ago, then refined. it is so good and was so ahead of its time that it remains relevant and a huge playground, it is a testament of the genius of NI founders.

Almost each product of Ni up until Maschine was really ground breaking for the industry or became the industry standard. Many innovative products died in the road as Kore, Guitar rig hardware and some synths which didn't get updates as Absynth, Pro5, the modeled organs (forgot the name of the product).

I think Maschine really broke the company, as in it changed the direction, Maschine software itself remains underdeveloped while the company concentrated more and more on libraries.

Why do you single out Maschine as what "broke the company" and not Kore? Kore is what broke trust with customers and led them to focus on expansions. Why not Kontakt? The lifeblood of that is additional content.

If anything broke anything, it's the change in management and priorities rather than a single product.

Absynth was and still is amazing—but being amazing doesn't stop it from being discontinued, just like with Kore.

Re Guitar Rig, it hasn't kept pace with other guitar solutions, and whilst people say "it can be used for more than just guitar", well, so can the alternatives, but that doesn't negate Guitar Rig having failed to keep pace and having lost marketshare. Same goes for Reaktor, however good it may have been or is still considered, is clearly shown as irrelevant with how little development it sees when that functionally means that it slides into obscurity and thus less sales, and eventually being discontinued.

If it still works for you, great. I know I still love plenty of discontinued stuff.

[rod_zero]

I think Maschine broke the company because it was very very successful and selling expansions for it was more profitable than developing new stuff or investing in keeping updating the old synths.

Of course the management swap is probably more important but I think that came after Maschine if I remember correctly.

[Hammy Havoc]

I think Maschine broke the company because it was very very successful and selling expansions for it was more profitable than developing new stuff or investing in keeping updating the old synths.

Of course the management swap is probably more important but I think that came after Maschine if I remember correctly.

Are there figures on the apparent success of Maschine? Because if something was a success, you would think it would see much more development and thus sell even more of it, especially if you can then ask all the Maschine users to buy a software update. Same goes for Komplete Kontrol, it's woeful compared to the likes of the Oberheim MC 3000 in terms of features and keybed, and that came out quarter of a century ago.

Management swap is indeed post-Maschine, but IMO, most problems got much worse following it.

[glokraw]

In the time NI have existed, the entire audio/video conglomerate industry has changed in ways that few people envisioned, and the change is ongoing, not to mention that people in first-world countries now have 20% less money to spend. It's also a scramble for businesses to find people who will work long and hard for their employers. I respect both the survivors and the newcomers. Creating and pricing innovation won't be easy, with sacrifices to the old business models coming hard and fast.
Cheers

[sacer]

I think Maschine broke the company because it was very very successful and selling expansions for it was more profitable than developing new stuff or investing in keeping updating the old synths.

Of course the management swap is probably more important but I think that came after Maschine if I remember correctly.

Maschine feels like half baked - a lot of customers wants to record every input from mashine in the daw, but nothing happened. Nothing changed for a better daw integration since v1. Now there has reason Studio a much better DAW integration.
Mashine feels like a real hardware or an instance of fruity loops in Ableton, but nothing that’s integrate into your DAW. Ther was Kore much better integrated, but they f**ked themselves with every update. They should have make a Kontakt v5 backward compatible to v4 etc. so you need all Komplete versions installed to open older sounds with Kontakt, guitar rig, absynth and battery. That’s why they have stopped kore, because they don’t want to offer all the presets for newer versions again and again. I bet it was to much work to convert presets.
Kore was the much better system than Komplete Kontrol - I still use it - but now since Native Access V2 they don’t allow to register older massive, fm8 versions which I had used with kore to edit older kore presets. I asked them when it was working with native Access v1, why can’t you transfer the registration to V2 - but their support intern was only able to answer that it is a product out of support since 10 years -> thank you NI

Yeah his company has been broken with the end of Kore - Maschine was good for making money but it was a heartless product to sell expansions

[Hanz Meyzer]

I actually think it started earlier, when they didn’t update their very liked vst products, like pro 53, fm8 and absynth. All their control systems are a step into the wrong direction, imho, requiring a host on host software. Only the hardware seems to be very solidly built.

[ATS]

They discontinued too many things. Say what you want about Waves but all the effects they ever released still work today and are updated.

[sacer]

Compare it to u-he - now I’ll get a new filterscape as update for free !!! That’s a value if you invest into their synths.
If you invest in waves you get the next apple compatibility for 240€ every two years, compared to Ni you get a lot of new stuff by updating Komplete collectors edition on sale.

[noiseboyuk]

It'll be the June 50%-off upgrade sale soon. Can't wait to read all the same arguments for and against again then - 17 more sleeps

[monolithx]

"old-school synth experimenters", Reaktor? In today's world, it's just another modular (with no MPE?). I don't find it "creative" in the intuitive way. Just a bunch of standard modules.

I think the problem lies with you , reaktor is far more than just another modular (blocks) .
You’re just using a tiny subset of it’s capabilities ,learn reaktor core

I saw Reaktor v1, then I switched to Max MSP (because it was scriptable and more user friendly), then M4L, but they are all too confusing with their partial DAW integration and the need for boring low level tweaking (ie. midi clock management in Max MSP).

Finally, today, and for the years to come, I use Bitwig. What this little company is doing is mind blowing in terms of creative workflow. Compared to the others solutions decribed here, the balance between power and intuitive high level, DAW integrated, tools is near perfect. Why? Because they have innovated with creativity in their mind. While what NI is doing, with all their power as a big company, is minimum maintenance of their catalog to sell their play accessories.

What to expect from a DAW like Maschine that is in version 2 since 10 years! It must be a (sad) record in the music software industry. The computer+hardware+DAW integration at reasonable price is a powerful idea broken by a minimalist, profit only, oriented view. That's why I blame them so much. They have never finished it and now they are trying to sell Maschine+ at twice the price with all the hardware durability and limitations drawbacks.